Table full of weak tight players plus a couple of loose passives. I just locked up a seat change to the left of the passives and immediate right of the tight ones. Will move after button.

V: ($240) One of the couple of loose passives. Playing roughly 30-40% of hands. Mostly limping pre but will occasionally min or min+ raise. Badly misplayed a hand against me earlier when he flopped a straight on a KQTdd board in a limped pot. Checked through, I led $7 from the BB, he raised to $15, I hit the nut flush on the river and c/r him AI for his last $90 or so. He reloaded for $200.

Hero: ($470) Punishing the weak tight players in position whenever I can. Haven't seen many showdowns.

Pre: 3 limps to Hero who completes in SB with Q8. BB checks.

Flop ($12): J88. Hero leads for $10, 1 fold, V raises to $20, folds to hero. Hero???

75/ship turn

Fold pre. LP's and WT's ranges both crush your hand, and you're OOP.

AP, bleh. LP min-raises are so strong, but we beat so many 8s, and all Js but JJ, which even LP would raise pre, and boats. Still, he likely has no draws in his range, and isn't concerned that you do, even after his lesson, so he's either stone dumb or very nuttted.

I call, and take a pot control line on most runouts.

Very little JJ in V's range.

For 80bb let's get stacks in. Click it back.

And I would have lead slightly larger to make this result easier to deal with. $15... maybe $20 if the table would not blink at the sizing.

Its amusing too in that if you boat up, it also completes a straight draw.

Now I don't think T9 is all that likely... But you're definitely stacking him if that happens.

Call and lead the turn for fun

I have to admit I am concerned that V min-raised us on the flop, since last time he did this he had the nut straight. So, I am assuming V has a strong hand here. If he is passive, he is more likely to just call with Jx and draws, so it really only leaves his range as JJ or 8x. You lose to A8,K8 and J8 which should contain a fair amount of V's limping range. There are a few other 8x combos you beat here, so our hand is obv too strong to fold yet we probably aren't too happy since there are a few hands that beat us. So, all together I agree with Garick's line and would probably go into c/c mode to control the size of the pot.

villian is more likely to have 8x random like 87, 86, 89 than 8J, 8K. Of course we lose to A8. He has plenty of combo spade + straight draws in his range.

1) if villian can ever raise with a draw, raise / call
2) if villian never raises with a draw, call and check call all run outs unless we know otherwise.

Nice seat change plan.

I'm not sure what the SB completeness requirements should be in a 2/3 structure. I know in my 1/3 structure I would auto dump this as I hate 3 gappers due to RIO on straights (I don't even play 3 gappers in position). But getting these insane odds, I probably do sigh call.

In spots like this I generally follow the "don't go broke in limped pots" rule; I mean, we're only 80bbs deep but I still don't think we can stack off here. The board is drawy, so I'm fine with the flop bet. If we call the minraise, the pot will be ~$50 with $200 behind. Due to most villains betting their big hands smallish, we are unlikely to go broke on this hand (figure calling say a $30 turn bet and a $50 river bet). I think that's a reasonable amount of bets to put in, considering we are ahead of quite a few hands too. I probably passively enter calldown mode, although it's possible I miss more value here than I should. Our seat change plan is awesome because there is a decent chance the river might check thru, whereas when we get our seat change we can guarantee that won't happen; depending on how things play out on the turn/river, we might even consider a bet/fold on the river (although that really depends on whether villain is capable of raising the river with non-nuttish hands).

GprobablytoopassiveforhisowngoodG

Here comes.

Fold pre. It's just not going to work out to a long term profit.

Now you've hit as good a flop as you could hope for. Gotta get it in now.

Can we really fold preflop getting immediate odds of 14:1 for and implied odds of 280+x almost closing the action? I mean, we can almost just nutpeddle at this price, no?

Galthoughthere'snotalotofhandsthatwewillconsidernu ttish,andsomeofthemhavehighRIOG

I thought about that given its 2/3 and not 1/2 or 1/3. While I'd certainly loosen up a little bit in that spot I can't think I too many good flops for Q8o. I don't think IO is nearly what we think it is here. Plus the table isn't crazy.

Agreed. You need to have a total of three queens or eights on the flop to have a nut-type hand. Then you need to have someone else have a good enough hand they're willing to stack off; how often do they do they do that on a QQ8 flop?

Update: Hero raises to $75, planning to GII/ship turn. V thinks for 10-15 seconds and calls.

Turn ($160): 2. Hero ships for V's remaining stack.

Here's what I was thinking before flop 3bet: villain is not a skilled hand reader, is kind of a level 1.5 player, is more likely to be clicking buttons with min-raises than peddling the nuts. I beat his KJ, QJ, 86, 87, 89, 8T and am losing to 8J, 8K, A8. Also a slight chance he has the NFD here. MAYBE even 9T. Wanted to get as much value as I could although it is the high variance route.

Now, if the turn had been something like 7, what is our line?

I don't think your line is horrendous or anything. As you say, there's a lot of hands that could consider themselves nuttish (but worse) that are never folding (and it's actually better to get the money in now before a scare card comes). We'd love to charge draws (which are probably never folding). My guess is that JJ/J8 (flopped boats) probably don't raise the flop with others still to tarp behind them, so we're really only sucking against A8/K8. A raise might get Jx to fold though.

One we do take the 3bet route, we're pretty committed, even on bad turn cards. We'll only have a PSB left, and even on horrendous turn cards we're still better than a lot of the 8x / Jx hands we were targetting. If we're 3betting the flop, we're shipping any turn, imo.

I think I might err to much on the conservative side, so your line might be better than mine.

GtooconservativeforhisowngoodG