Background:
1. Villain just sat down about two orbits ago. No reads, zero history.
2. The rest of the table had been playing fairly straightforward/tight for the past two hours.

Positions:
BU Hero ($350): Young AM, tight.
UTG+1 Villain ($500): Young WM, unknown

Preflop:
V opens to $8
Hero calls with AT

Flop ($20): JT8
V bets $17
Hero calls $17

Turn ($54): JT88
V bets $25
Hero calls $25

River ($104): JT88A
V bets $50

Hero action?

Thoughts:
1. I think pre can be a 3! sometimes against a known opponent, and Turn can be a fold most of a time.
2. I have a couple of other thoughts about this hand, but I don't want to bias anybody's opinion.

I typically don't call raises with ATs, but for this lol price and in position, and even loving if blinds come along for multiway (where our hand plays fine), I'm fine with preflop.

I think flop call is a little debatable but I guess I don't hate it. It worries me a little when someone juices the pot preflop and then cbets large, although in HU cases we don't have to be nearly as worried as in multiway cases.

Turn is still pretty drawy and all the draws have still busted, so I don't hate a call here either. I always feel a little fishy calling stationish playing the hand like this, but I think it's an acceptable line here.

Nut low river card, as Ax / KQ / flush all got there. I fold now. ETA: Ha, just realized we made two pear. Still, of these that only means we're ahead of Ax, and I'm not convinced Ax is betting now that every draw got there, plus we're still behind AJ.

Gallstreetsdebatable,butifyoufoldedriverIthinkhand isokG

I'm 3 betting pre flop every time vs an unknown...Villains at 1/2 - 1/3 have a tenancy to choose raise sizings based on hand strength. I'm 3 betting to $30 here.

Flop is a call.

Turn is a call, too.

River is a fold. Villain could have 98s, JJ, TT, AJ, Q9s, and a lot of different flushes. We beat JT, and 9x that isn't 98.

I 3bet or fold vs. an unknown opening UTG+1 (unless he looks gambly, etc.) -- default is fold. It's such a small raise, though, that I can get behind a call to see a flop.

Flop and turn are iffy. Now that you are here, call.

Edit: Wow, sixsevenoff, we completely disagree. I'm mostly folding flop/turn and definitely calling now.

One thing I want to throw out there is that the main reason I didn't fold Turn is because I still believed AcXc was in his range (specifically AcKc, AcQc since he did open from up front).

I believe the Ac on the River is quite an important card in narrowing down his range as he can no longer have these hands (but KQ also gets there now).

You called turn because you beat two combos?

That's not what I said. I was implying that there are still these two combos (in addition to a few others) that I could see playing it this way that I'm still ahead of.

I'm ahead of: AK, AQ, 99, A9, KQ
I'm behind: AA, KK, QQ, Jx, A8

But for the hands I'm behind, there are a lot of River cards where he checks and I can decide if I want to turn my hand into a bluff.

Him betting the Ac specifically severely narrows his range in my opinion.

The turn is a fold. Period.

There’s a lot going on here on this river, but you know there’s a problem if you’re not sure whether to fold, call, or raise and frankly I don’t know what to tell you. Your assessment of his range is also way too narrow without reads. I suppose you have to call river for 50 when you beat AQ/AK and weird blocked QQKK, but you shouldn’t even have a hand this bad here.

Never folding IP with A10s for <3bb raise OTB.

Would prefer to 3b tho but would never fold.

fold turn

Flop and turn are very easy folds. Pre is debatable. Your play in this hand is only good vs. too small of a range of hands, not too mention you were fortunate with the run out.

River is a fold.

+1 although with a brand new default Villain who is deep I think a call is more than fine. It’s certainly never a fold, that’s for sure.

I was wrong, folding the turn is the right play, I was just a street behind

How does the Turn card change the board texture though?

It’s a good card for V because you shouldn’t have any 8s at this point, no overcards hit and no draws completed.

So if he was c-betting (whether he has it or not), he should continue betting with this card, correct?

Meaning if I called flop, I should call Turn. Otherwise just fold flop.

I'm quite surprised by the people saying that I shouldn't call to take a flop with a suited AT on the button, against a small open. If I'm not calling with this hand, what am I calling with?

If I 3! pre, am I doing it for value or as a bluff?

Actually, I don't think anyone said fold pre. I said I usually would against an unknown EP raiser, but for the price I could get behind it. One other poster said it was debatable, but I don't know if they wanted you to 3bet or fold instead of flat.

I am 3betting pre for value, because we have an A blocker, because we have some FE, and for meta-game

I don’t really understand what you’re asking? You asked about board texture and the answer is that the turn card is good for villain. If he felt he was ahead on the flop, he’s still feeling good. That doesn’t mean that he should barrel 100% of his range.

I wanted a potential fold.

you lose to KQ and AJ, but beat a lot of other hands. for that price, call.

don't really like the call on the flop. we have middle pair with no real draw on a connected board and we are just going to keep calling while V barrels away at us?

Flop’s a pretty clear call with backdoor spades and beating every straight draw and flush draw out there + random spazzes

AT no backdoor fd you could possibly argue a huge exploit fold vs this sizing but with spades cant rly fold

Reposting because I didnt notice the small pf bet which really could mean anything with no reads. First off I would probably fold this hand vs an unknowns utg+1 raise unless there was 1 or 2 bad players in the blinds. If OP said this was V standard open it would change things dramatically. Couple questions for the better players in this thread:

1) Doesnt the paired 8 help a btn cold calling range more than an utg+1 range?

2) Arent the most likely hands V has AK/AQ on the flop?

3) Doesnt a btn cc range have way more fd's compared to an utg+1 range?

4) No one has mentioned the super weak turn bet so far. Is there no one here that would raise the $25 regardless of board/holdings?

5) Does the river bet not scream "ive improved my hand but I am still afraid" to anyone else?

I wouldnt read too deeply into the bet sizings postflop, fish/unknowns can just be clicking buttons and often don’t know proper bet sizings.

I do agree that the $8 open is mostly weak though so we can just 3b as a merge value, tho I’d never fold vs that sizing with any suited ace here otb

For that small sizing I am calling turn and river. Then I can make exploitative folds/calls on future hands.

Arent fish more prone to bet sizing tells than a reg? Lets type out V's line.

8 > 17 > 25 > 50

Sure looks like V has a basic concept of bet sizing to me since 2 of his bets were double the amount from the previous street.

I have never seen a bad player bet a couple more bucks on the turn like that compared to cbet that wasnt weak. The turn tells me he doesnt want to bet but doesnt want to check and get blown off the hand since V still has something. The river bet again tells me he improved his hand but is not very confident in it.

It's always hard to interpret bet sizing, but it's possible the smallish bet on the turn is a semi-bluff with a decent draw (which is why I don't hate the turn call, although it is certainly debatable).

GcluelessbetsizingnoobG