fair enough. For the most part people posting with those hands aren't the people who know how to play them profitably anyways so I can't disagree.

you have played 300k hands on line and are effectively even. Your are stuck this year. You are trying to go pro. You seem to be confused in very standard spots. I stick by my initial thought that you do not play very well post flop.

This is not a personal attack. It is my thought and venices as well. When I say screw down your game I mean tighten the phuc up cuz you are getting lost in hands and it is costing you lots o $.

As you improve you can get a little more creative BUT you got to learn how to color in between the lines b4 you can go out and paint a huge mural on your own.

Also tomark has some high quality thoughts as well

Drawing conclusions from a 20 hour sample is absurd. I've had 4 hour sessions where I lost more than 400BBs and I know people who have done much worse. Some people have lost that in a single hand. Losing 400BBs over 20 hours sucks, but it's still relatively minor run-bad. LOL at anybody basing their advice on these results.

Winning $400 in 300k hands online is a strong indication that you can beat live poker. LOL at people giving condescending advice when they are probably not good enough to do that themselves.

+1 to cold-calling very rarely in general, although we can probably do it much more often live than online since few people 3-bet nearly as much as they should.

I might be tighter than most, so I typically I would fold. If I believe the initial raiser is a poor player post flop than I can see myself calling. If villain is opening too wide and continuing too often post flop and I believe I can induce a call OOP from less than stellar holdings then I like re-raising.

Absent a solid read and potential exploit I am not a fan of flatting reverse implied odds top pair type hands, especially if the people acting behind are likely to call and create a multi-way pot.

Lot of good inputs here from various posters.

I just want to touch a little bit upon the difference between online and live, since it have been brought up briefly by other posters.

The difference between a livegame and online grinding is alot bigger than most people realize. The skills developed by an online grinder is alot different from what you need in a livegame. I have seen several online crushers literally melt down in our underground livegames: because they cant handle it for several reasons.

--1)Online you can just put on you headphones after a big suckout, and run into your own world- getting ****loads of hands dealt on all the tables because you multitable. In livegames you cant do that obviously, its slow as **** and you need to live in the pain slowly and take it in- maybe even sitting right next to the opponent who sucked out and is now sitting on all your money. There is no way to escape.


--2)The adjustments/exploitative adjustments you need to make in order to crush in livegames is extremely difficult to do for many online guys. Just because its pretty much the exact oposite of what they do to crush online. Online they merge ranges,they pimp their 3 and 4 bet ranges,they have a fixed set of ranges they open from position x and position y in order to be balanced- they thrive for balanced GTO ish kind of play- they thrive to be perfectly balanced in every part of their game. And their opponents does the same thing.When they come into livegames however where near every opponent is totally _unbalanced_ in every part of their game, they just dont know what to do or how to adjust because its a world they dont know about really.

As a quick example:One of the online guys ive played with alot he got so frustrated one time when i ran over him pre due to his too wide of a opening range that he almost quit the game because he got scared to play. I 3 bet or shoved pre on him like 5-6 times in a row over his opens: and he just refused to stop opening or open tighter. Its like, he knew what happend-that i was raping him for opening too many hands, but since he is used to grind like a robot online and keep static balanced (GTO) opening ranges he was just out of his element, and was unable to adjust on the go in livegame. He just kept on opening 7-4 suited or 9-10 off, even though me and the other good player in the game was 3 betting him to death.


--3) Social skills is a massive edge in many livegames settings. Both in terms of being invited back to homegames,being able to talk,being able to talk friendly and joke around with people- and by that contribute to create a good livegame atmosphere, being able to help keeping the fish and whales in the game as long as possible, giving off the non pro non grinder vibe to the other playes wich in order make them lower their guard towards you and your game and so on. Quite the oposite of sitting alone in silence in front of your computer.

Alot of these skills takes time to develope and hone, and alot of this stuff is complete unknown territory for online guys. Its like a whole world they dont know excist. The skilled livepro praise the fish for good play/nice hand when they suckout or play a hand horribly- the online guys starts going into serious strat discussions, and due to entitlement tilt having the need to defend themself or prove to the table that they have alot of poker knowledge.

Yes, online guys can also learn this stuff by time- but i just wanted to point out how different of an animal livepoker is on so many levels compared to online. And as mentioned in point number 3- not only due to techincal poker or how the games is played.

^^^solid post and good points. Two totally different worlds

You may have seen youtube vlogs by the following people:

Andrew Neeme (plays 5/10 and 2/5 mostly)
Jaman Burton (low stakes but can open range wide against weak passive players)
Johnny Vibes (more medium stakes)

There is also a guy called Detroit Poker who, as far as I can see, appears to be playing 1/2 with a very solid winning tight aggressive style. Probably the most boring videos to watch but also the most helpful in terms of what hands to be playing and to always have good reasons for making moves.

Petrucci - good post. I'm still transitioning to live play after a couple of years on and off. You hit the nail on the head here.

Appreciate the kind words regarding my last post, thanks guys.

Just making this simple adjustment would help your game a lot, assuming you can make the necessary adjustments and exploit the information given to you. If you have to prioritize one or the other, paying attention to the game is more important than recording your hands.

Having said that, you’re basically a break even player based on your online stats, which means you have some big fundamental leaks somewhere in your game. Perhaps it would be a good idea to invest in a live poker training site (Crush Live Poker) for a few months to try to find your leaks by seeing where your game differs from other live pros.

^ yeah I rate crush live poker. Bart Hanson is, IMO, a great player and explains things very clearly. He quickly focusses on what matters and that's fundamentally important. Once you are observing everything that's happening the next step is filtering out the most important observations and committing them to memory.

Hearing how a pro thinks about the game gives you an insight into the end state of this process of analysis: observing everything - identifying and focussing on the most important pieces of evidence - remembering them - combining those important facts with your knowledge of poker logic and strategy to create a mental model of your opponents' style ---> getting inside opponents' heads to read hands from their perspective so you can exploit them maximally.

In short training sites will give you the answer to this question: What information am I looking for at the table and how do I use that information when I have it?

I just started watching this guy... easy to miss because he has no personality but plays quite solid with reasonable explanations. Also records the action so there that, at least.

My advice for general live play is to be hyper aware of your own image. If you are in tune to what other players think you are and are not capable of, you can very easily exploit them. Make them think you are looser and bluffier than you really are, then they will be left leveling themselves as they simultaneously underplay their weak holdings because they don't want to fight you with marginal hands in small pots, yet they will also overplay their strong hands because they want to stack the crazy guy who bluffs too much and "could have anything."

My image is usually as I just described, but what has happened in recent action will have a huge influence on my bluffing frequency, 3-bet range, etc.

Whilst you made some good points earlier with respect to the social skills, the patience and the discipline required to succeed at live poker, I have to disagree with this point.

Online players are exceptionally strong at analysing your stats and finding imbalances - your VPIP, your PFR, your 3bet %, your flop Cbet %, your turn barrel %, etc. If this player in question was truly an online grinder, then he should've noticed you 3betting him at a high frequency and he should've adjusted properly to it.

Further, if he was truly using a "balanced" pre-flop strategy, excessive 3-betting would lose money against him. He should be able to defend enough against Petrucci's 3-bets that using poor 3-bet hand selection loses money.

He's probably not a good online player if he's opening stuff like T9o/74s, though, except maybe folded to BU/CO.

I'm not sure what Petrucci's point is. Online and live are different, sure, but let's not pretend beating live poker is hard. Beating online poker on the other hand has a reputation for being hard.

The global pool of both online players and live players is diverse. Its hard to generalise about this stuff.

My point in the longer post was just to eleborate a little bit further on some of the key differences i believe excist between live and online.

Regarding the balanced/not balanced thing youre argueing about here, i understand what you mean- and the essence wasnt for me to judge if this online guy really is balanced or playing GTO pr definition or whatever (i agree that he is probably not in many ways).

My point really was to give an example of how online guys gets into trouble against good liveplayers when they havent played that much live themself and is struggling to adapt, due to their somewhat robotic,mechanical grinding style with a fixed set of ranges they have in their mind that they have to play.

When this guy raises 7-4 suited online at his 6 max table, it probably often gets folded around so he wins the blinds or he gets one caller and plays the pot heads up with iniative. In a livegame he gets 4 sticky callers to navigate through+ good liveplayers is extremley observant and exploitative by nature and is gonna punish him like i did with widening my 3 bet range alot. Yes, i know that its alot more 3 bet/4 bet going on in online games, but that its beside the point in this instance.

Another example to illustrate my point on how online guys often is stuck up in their own head, rather than tuning and adjusting to what they observe at the table. Online guy raises 1010 on the button with old nit in the BB and whale UTG straddle. Old nit 3 bets quite big. Online guy says the usual stuff to himself that he is on the button, he is on the top of his late position opening range, BB can be playing back at him with a wider 3 bet range because of that and yada yada. So he 4 bet jams and put old nit in preflop for his 100 BB stack. Old nit of course snapcalls with KK: because every good liveplayer knows the real reason behind the 3 bet- he simply got dealt an ultra premium that fits into his QQ+ 3 bet range, and the old nits 3 bet range is still QQ+ regardless of where the open came from and all the other levelling stuff that online guys have built in from their online grind.

I totally agree that he should be able to readjust to me 3 betting him a ton and it was obvious that i was exploiting him for opening too many hands, so i was quite surprised that he got thrown off his game and just kept going in the same tracks: but fact was that he was unable to readjust. And ive had similar experiences with several online grinders.

I can only guess why he was unable to readjust in game when it happend,but as mentioned i think it has something to do with being too much in their own head/their own predecided playing style, the more mechanical static multitable grinding online with less focus on max exploiting peoples tendencies and weaknesses.

Not really... 95% of live players up to and including $2/$5 are loose-passive. There's very little diversity there.

You can find a few exceptions, but online regs crush live regs overall, and most of the top live regs are the ones that frequently play online, or at least used to in the past.

Protip:

I followed the advice of tightening up my game as per some comments in this thread. I assume I don't have an edge post-flop, so I would like to be at the top of my range.

My only issue with this is that if you're card dead, you can legit be in a situation where you haven't played a single hand in an hour. Unfortunately for me, even the fish at my casino aren't total imbeciles, so this gets noticed fairly often and ruins your image. Which, in turn, leads to people not playing back at you or paying you off when you hit (might only get 1 street of value).

I haven't found a good solution to this, except changing tables or cutting my session short for the night and going home to recharge.

PS: when I mean run bad, I mean like 2 low pocket pairs in 4 hours, both OOP. Some AQ/AJ sprinkled here and there and that's it.

Smh every thread these days turns into an online vs live dick swinging contest.

I find that after not playing a single hand in an hour, my opponents are still just playing their cards. I've only ever seen one player who was a complete NIT and only bet with the nuts. He was still able to get called by players that hadn't yet observed what kind of nit he was.

I admittedly am a LAG but one solution even if you're playing tight is to really loosen up in position. If you're in HJ, CO, or button and it folds to you or there is only 1 limper consider raising anything even remotely playable. These pots will be very weakly contested and players don't differentiate image based on where you're raising from. They just see you playing and don't realize you're supernit from EP/MP but loose in LP. The raise is +EV anyways so it's a double win win.

What would you consider "remotely playable"? Is it different for HJ vs BTN?

Considering the slow pace of live games the situation where it folds to me without limpers or just 1 limper may not come up in an entire session, because my games are full of passive limping fish.

Another example I used in another thread is that we are only on the BTN twice an hour, so it's completely possible that we get 2 unplayable hands there.

But thanks for the advice, my next time I'll try opening up in HJ and CO as well.

I think that by far my biggest weakness is having poor game selection and not recognizing that the table is dead fast enough.