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1/3 - What do you typically do with KQo or AJo facing a  raise? 1/3 - What do you typically do with KQo or AJo facing a  raise?

02-13-2018 , 07:34 PM
Yeah the opportunity doesn't arise all too often but when it does I'm definitely looking to get in there with a wide range. My playables would come out to be about 40% of hands. So as bad as stuff like J8s, 57s, Q8s, K9o, T9o, all aces, etc. Basically trash but trash that can at least give you some draw or high pair fairly often. With most of the table gone already you should take it down pre, or be getting HU or 3way at most. Your raise or raise+cbet should be taking things down very often but equity certainly helps. As long as you're folding out players who have position postflop often I play basically the same range for all 3 spots.

Last edited by NewClintEastwood; 02-13-2018 at 07:46 PM.
1/3 - What do you typically do with KQo or AJo facing a  raise? Quote
02-13-2018 , 08:17 PM
^ this can definitely work but you've got to be careful to avoid inadvertently isolating a dishonest EP limper. There are a fair few in my game who'll limp strong hands and then flat to trap in aggressive players.

It gets expensive quickly if you're just blindly betting into these guys' strong limping ranges with your wide stealing ranges so be wary.

Of course, if you've just got a bunch of weak and honest limpers infront of you - fire away, it's practically free money!
1/3 - What do you typically do with KQo or AJo facing a  raise? Quote
02-13-2018 , 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by setintostraight
Considering the slow pace of live games the situation where it folds to me without limpers or just 1 limper may not come up in an entire session, because my games are full of passive limping fish.

Another example I used in another thread is that we are only on the BTN twice an hour, so it's completely possible that we get 2 unplayable hands there.
If it's a 9-handed game and you see 36 hands per hour, then you should be on the BTN 4 times per hour and you should be in late position 12 times per hour... unless the pace of your casino is literally twice as slow as the pace of mine?

Fwiw I have been in a situation where I had to fold 35 hands in a row. I was always OOP and facing a raise anytime I had a low pocket pair or suited connector, so I had to fold. I'd also folded AJo in UTG+1 against a UTG raise. And I'd never been dealt anything better than AJ or pocket 5s in the whole hour. Every hand was 72o, 83o, J2o, 62o, 72o again, etc. When I finally raised a hand that session with QQ, someone called out that I "must have Aces" and only 1 player called my open. So I know the feeling.

The way I see it: these sessions aren't going to be super profitable sessions. You'll win a little bit or maybe breakeven. But there'll be a session in the future where you are dealt 5 premiums in 10 hands, and that will be the session where people pay you off big time.
1/3 - What do you typically do with KQo or AJo facing a  raise? Quote
02-13-2018 , 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
If it's a 9-handed game and you see 36 hands per hour, then you should be on the BTN 4 times per hour and you should be in late position 12 times per hour... unless the pace of your casino is literally twice as slow as the pace of mine?

Fwiw I have been in a situation where I had to fold 35 hands in a row. I was always OOP and facing a raise anytime I had a low pocket pair or suited connector, so I had to fold. I'd also folded AJo in UTG+1 against a UTG raise. And I'd never been dealt anything better than AJ or pocket 5s in the whole hour. Every hand was 72o, 83o, J2o, 62o, 72o again, etc. When I finally raised a hand that session with QQ, someone called out that I "must have Aces" and only 1 player called my open. So I know the feeling.

The way I see it: these sessions aren't going to be super profitable sessions. You'll win a little bit or maybe breakeven. But there'll be a session in the future where you are dealt 5 premiums in 10 hands, and that will be the session where people pay you off big time.
It should have been 3 hands on the BTN (30 hands/hr, 10-handed). Some people aren't paying attention, some are old nits who can barely read their cards and take 20 seconds per action. Sometimes a V will be tanking for 4 minutes. I will do an honest assessment next time and see how many hands I actually play in a session.

It also depends on who the BTN is if you're HJ/CO.
1/3 - What do you typically do with KQo or AJo facing a  raise? Quote
02-13-2018 , 10:37 PM
in general, if the action has been raised in front of you, regularly folding AJo and KQo will be the best choice. These are hands you can raise with if it's folded or limped to you but if it's been raised, easy fold. These RIO hands cost lots of players tons of money.
1/3 - What do you typically do with KQo or AJo facing a  raise? Quote
02-14-2018 , 01:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by setintostraight
What would you consider "remotely playable"? Is it different for HJ vs BTN?

Considering the slow pace of live games the situation where it folds to me without limpers or just 1 limper may not come up in an entire session, because my games are full of passive limping fish.

Another example I used in another thread is that we are only on the BTN twice an hour, so it's completely possible that we get 2 unplayable hands there.

But thanks for the advice, my next time I'll try opening up in HJ and CO as well.

I think that by far my biggest weakness is having poor game selection and not recognizing that the table is dead fast enough.
It is different, if ive been playing tight (card dead) and its limped to my button im raising ATC, CO maybe only a 50% range, HJ maybe only 20%. But for me its not really an image play, I am a winning player, and i have widened my range in response to my immense skill advantage in order to increase my profits. As a losi;g or near break even player you shouldnt play marginal hands, because the only real reason to try and siphon a few more cents out with them is if youre crushing.

Also you are overestimating your image, and underestimating how great it is to get folds on the flop.

Its very rare you actually want action. Although your biggest sessions are the ones where you run like god and get tons of action, the real moneymaking sessions are the ones where people just fold to your aggression. Honestly if youre generally sad when you get folds, you dont bluff enough.

Also, consider that you only need to make back your blinds each time around the table to break even, I think people vastly underrate what it takes to break even, most of poker is just avoiding pissing away the money you win with AA by calling in the CO with KQo.
1/3 - What do you typically do with KQo or AJo facing a  raise? Quote
02-14-2018 , 03:20 AM
Feels like the only way you’re making money with the hand is calling in position against some of the obviously “optimistic” players.

Against standard old guys or the competent players in my room it is just a fold most of the time.

Fwiw I fold it utg and +1,2 at 9/10 handed for the most part.

As a general strategy at 1/3 I probably enter the pot with most of my suited broadway holdings and just open fold most of my nonsuited. Of course, this can change as the situation changes, but when so many hands go multi way and so many hands go to showdown, you need hands that play well against more than one opponent.

I digress.
1/3 - What do you typically do with KQo or AJo facing a  raise? Quote
02-14-2018 , 03:33 AM
It’s wholly dependent on who the opener is, who’s left to act, stack depth, and my image.
1/3 - What do you typically do with KQo or AJo facing a  raise? Quote

      
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