Game is from Saturday night around 1am.

V1 - plays a bit laggy and loves to make moves and out play people. will run bluffs and value bet thin and call down light if he thinks you are fos. has some history with hero and views hero as tag but also sees hero as someone who will make moves

V2 - total donk. he calls like a $100 all-in with like $25 invested in the pot with a gut-shot.

V1 ~$600
V2 ~$70
H ~$350

V1 opens in MP to $12. His standard raise and he is opening quite wide even UTG
CO calls
V2 calls in SB
H has 8d6d in BB and opts to call.

Flop (~$45): 9d8c4s


V2 checks. H checks. V1 continues for $20. CO folds. V2 calls.
Hero opts to call here. Looking to semi bluff some diamonds some of the time.

V2 will c-bet a lot even when he whiffs in a multi-way pot. V2 can have weak holdings as well (see V2 description).

Turn (~$105): 9d8c4s 6h

V2 goes all in for his remaining $40 or so.


Hero?

Preflop can be a fold and I guess flop can be as well. Thoughts all streets appreciated.

I wont comment on preflop or the flop because arguments can be made for calling or folding. As played, raise to $160

Pre-flop is pretty marginal, or probably just bad. The fact that V1 is opening wide is actually not very helpful. We're playing a hand like 8h6h to make a monster, and hopefully find that V1 can't fold a second-best hand. If he's very wide, he's less likely to have a hand that pays us off when we hit, but at the same time we're still definitely behind any reasonable raising range even if he's wide.

Flop call is OK given reads. We can be ahead here. However, I don't like the plan to semi-bluff diamonds given V2 description and stack size. V2 has already put in half his stack, he's never folding so our semi-bluff never gets through.

Turn is tough because any raise commits our whole stack. Not worried about V2 any more given our hand's strength and his stack size, so all about V1. Realistic hands V1 can have that are ahead of us are 98, 99, 88, 44 and 66. This assumes he's not raising T7, 75, 95 or 96 pre, but maybe give him 75s as well that beats us if he's really wide. If we just flat here, I assume V1 is calling with almost his whole range, and for instance we have two overcards basically drawing dead. They'll all fold to a raise. Overpair may call a raise, as will all the hand that beat us and some draws (7x, especially if he has a pair too, diamonds). Other question is how bluffy V is. Flatting allows him to try to take it down with a big raise on the turn. I guess given our read I flat and probably call a raise by V, but don't mind raising ourselves either.

I can't hate too much on preflop. We're getting good implied odds and there is an idiot trapped in the hand (although he is too shortstacked to simply be targetting just him) and we're closing the action, although we will be OOP and this hand does have some RIO.

I'd fold the flop. A little less likely V1 is cbetting with air 4ways (especially with calling station V2 in hand), and by this time V2 is too short to really care about stacking him for this price.

I'd probably just call the turn (obviously we're committed against idiot V2). Middle two pair on this board against V1 who can be opening wide preflop ain't exactly a monster (as he can have so many better hands in his range, unlike a tight opener who has very few better hands). Things might get a little ugly if he raises here (where I would contemplate a fold in a protected pot). If V1 just calls, I probably donk safe rivers.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I don't play much any more, but I am quickly re-learning that drawing hands with RIO should really only be played IP.... to avoid situations like this......


@MIB211 - he def raises hands like T7, 75. But if I were to raise and expect any action from V1, I would expect over pairs and 99/lower sets even though I block those. I think if I raise, V1 would be 50/50 as to jam on me with overpairs given my history vs him.

Also regarding "V1 cant fold 2nd best hand" - I think that is part of the reason why I called. He will call down a lot, and hands like smaller SCs are not hands he sees me having a ton as he views me to be pretty tight, which I think increases the value of my hand a little.

Not justifying it though, in retrospect, I think I should be folding this hand OOP.

So AP...

Hero raises to $110.

I feel like I am just ahead of V1 so much here. The only hand he really ever haves here that crushes me is 99.

V1 thinks for about 30-45 seconds. And says to hero "I'm ahead of you." And think for another minute and says "OK I guess I'm all in then."

Hero?

Don't think the bold is right. You just said he could have T7 or 75 in this spot, which both have you drawing to 4 outs on the river. Similar he could have 98, 44 or the one remaining combos of 88 and 66.

As played, I'd probably fold, although for those big on tells he has acted strong ("I'm ahead of you") which may lean those who believe in such things to a call.

Agree with MIB that this guy could have lottsa hands that are better than ours.

GcluelessNLnoobG

defiantly fold this pre - as calling OOP is a pretty big mistake.

We ether cooler someone, or end up getting coolered. There is no out playing people in this spot.

Look what happened -we hit a magic 2 pair and are still unsure what to do.

People say they are never folding AA for 100BBs all the time. OK, you have 117BB to start the hand, but Im certainly not folding 2 pair here. Especially not when Im getting almost 3:1 against a LAG. Easy call.

As played calling it off, the speech and waiting can be a good sign

The shortstack going in for a small bet that you raise can easily mess up how he evaluates your hand, you might raise overpairs or a9 and villain is trying to get value from that

Also, I slightly prefer calling and deciding line after villain makes his action

this is true. he can certainly be raising T7s and 75s.


Anyway, thanks for responses. Think a couple big takeaways is that:

SC type hands def need to be played in position and so preflop is a huge mistake. Flop float is pretty marginal but I'm OK doing it some of the time against my described V1.


His talk kind of got me into the call... so. Hero calls the jam: