This is a Sunday afternoon game where the stacks are shorter and not much action. A younger guy that I played with Friday night sits down. He will be SB in this hand and the main villain. Relevant read i have on him is that he plays all his big hands fast. I saw him raise sets on ragged boards and he fast played a flopped str8 against my flopped top set which held the other night.

OTTH Hero ($560 - cover table) is dealt AJ UTG and raises $15. For the pre-flop police, I have removed AJo from UTG raising range in some of the looser/more aggressive games but I think I can get away with as low as ATo in this game where no one has three bet in the 2 hours I have been there. Anyway, the predictable happens and flop goes off 6 ways

Flop ($53-after rake) A92. I am thinking about sizing when to my surprise the SB leads out for $25. I am not sure what to make of the sizing, but seems small to me and out of character for my read on monsters. I think that he can still have sets, but might be setting his price with a club draw, have two pair or maybe an ace that wants to see where he is. Regardless, I don’t want this flop going multi-way and I think he will let me know if he has a set on this street. I raise to $85 all others fold and he calls.

My thoughts are that I will check most turns and decide on the River.

Turn ($223) J very interesting card as I am now ahead of his two pair holdings and I also pull ahead if he had an ace with a better kicker. He checks, I bet $115 and he immediately jams his stack! . After the $115’s pulled in, around $230 to call.

Thoughts?

Please post again with the hands written or the images corrected.

Easy call. Lots of A's up you're ahead of. 0% chance of folding. If he has a set, good for him. Bink the Ace and move on.

I've seen a lotta threads where people think that so long as we're not getting 3bet that we can't be exploited by raising a wide range of hands from anywhere. That's simply not the case, imo. I actually fold AJo in EP but that's simply where my tight nit line is drawn. Think it plays better as a limp than a raise from here. And obvious result is obvious, and horrific, imo.

The formatting in this post is ****ed. What's the flop? I'm going to assume A high? Eleventeen ways with the world still to act behind me, and with a fastplayer donking into the world, I would lean to a nit fold here. Unless the board is drawy, there are going to be so few hands we actually beat that could be donking. If we must continue then calling is better than raising just so we can see what everyone else does before we start committing some real money.

Again, hard to know without knowing the cards, but is there any reasonable two pair in his range by the turn? Preflop/flop may have gotten us into an awkward commitment spot but I'm not convinced we are (board dependent).

Goverplayingourhandoneverystreet,imoG

Sorry about the lousy formatting. Tried to use the emojis on an IPAD. Formatting showed up alright on my phone. Just opened the laptop to see how horrible it looks.

Flop was A92 with the 92 being clubs. J turn was not a club and didn't bring another flush draw. My ace is not the Ace of clubs. I have AJo

I would flat the flop with your hand. Just not strong enough to want play for stacks vs 6 people even on a great flop for us. Turn, obviously we can’t fold now,

A9/A2 and chopping AJ are at least credible hands so might have to sigh get it in at this point.

I still think the biggest mistake in this hand is preflop. If we played a high SPR pot we can just kinda start calling down for a reasonable sized pot, keeping in TP type hands and other hands we beat, while not playing for stacks in the two pair versus set scenario. But preflop put decently sized biggish stacks in play, which we almost never want to do.

GsetupbetterspotsG

The result is not horrific. Stop it. How is this result inferior to limping and going 6 ways?


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I might eventually start a poll thread regarding this (I was discussing something very similar with Browni in the chat thread recently), but my guess is it'll turn into a **** show (although what's new?).

I'll append a very simple modifier to my original statement: *I* think it's a horrific result. If you think going to lol low single digit SPRs multiway OOP is a great result (or even preferable to high SPR limped spots) with almost any hand then you can go ahead and do that.

GcluelessgoodsituationnoobG

I just call the flop and see what happens. No reason at all to go nuts here, multi-way with AJo.

As played obviously call it off. He probably had a set, otherwise you wouldn’t have posted the hand I guess, but his valuerange alone is wider than sets, and he can still have semibluffs, so I have no idea why this is a tough decision.

Also, your potsize is probably wrong, or did they really rake $27 on the flop?

Interesting what you mention, as always.

You mention that pre-flop raising is not optimal, rather limping is due to the fact that we want to avoid a low SPR situation.

What would be your strategy? Call down bets until showdown as long as they are reasonable with Top pair A and also with double pairs AJ? And only go hard when hitting a flush draw? Is this your general plan when thinking of limping pre?

OTOH, by open raising preflop, making action on the flop and so on, we lower our SPR, but also take out of the way flush draws for example. Which doesn't seem like a bad idea either.

I'm not going to make a blanket statement like "pre-flop raising isn't optimal". One man's optimal is another man's nightmare. Get yourself in spots that *you* know how to handle, and that'll likely be optimal *for you* (cuz ain't no one else gonna play your hand for you postflop).

As for how I'd play it postflop having limped it preflop (noting that I actually fold it preflop but that's my line in the sand), it really depends on what happens postflop. In this particular example, I'd probably call down to the river and then make a decision as to whether to call/raise/bet depending on his river action/sizing on the particular river card. But thanks to the big SPR of limped pots, I'll have lots of streets and cards and actions worth of information at my disposal, where I can then make as an informed decision as possible, instead of just be thrown into a commitments pot with no information. I can also just simply nit fold non-nuttish hands / no draws postflop and move on with life; yeah, it'll be a mistake, but it's almost a meaningless one thanks to the pot being small. But the key is that I've given myself options. By creating small SPRs you greatly reduce your options, which is fine if you're mostly going to flop a hand where you'll be comfortably committed against the number of callers you expect (but not so fine if not).

GcluelessNLnoobG

Agree with limping preflop, although its probably more of a variance preference. If it's a loose game then raising is definitely + EV. I am not rolled for my 1/3 game so I limp unless I see some players getting ready to fold behind me.

Easy flop raise...denies equity to flushdraw and gets calls from worse aces.

Turn is a b/c...6 combos of sets and that's it.

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