Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
1/3 Uncapped. JJ facing 3/bet 5-handed 1/3 Uncapped. JJ facing 3/bet 5-handed

01-10-2019 , 11:56 PM
Live 1/3 game. 3/5 players including hero are winning players, other 2 are unknown/semi-unknown but seem solid.

HJ- ($200)
CO- ($200)
BTN- ($275)
Hero (SB)- ($225)
BB- ($100)

Unkwown HJ Opens to $22. Player only sat down few orbits ago but first time he has opened.
CO overcalls. Range is capped because he shows aggression with strong holdings.
BTN 3-bets to $75. Standard TAG player but very capable of squeezing. Don't have proof of player squeezing but wouldn't be surprised. Value heavy when money gets in. No big meta-game dynamics at play here.

On to me in the SB with JJ. Would you shove, fold, or flat here?

And out of curiosity, is this a good spot to squeeze on the BTN, with A5s for example, against unknown opposition at low-mid stakes? Looking to implement a squeezing range in my game against tougher opposition.
1/3 Uncapped. JJ facing 3/bet 5-handed Quote
01-11-2019 , 12:16 AM
In my games 7x is a strength sizing tell, and people open tightly in the first place, and are not positionally aware enough to open wider in late position. BU should have a strong range to squeeze with here.

A5s might be an okay hand to squeeze with if we don't believe HJ's range is strong, but $75 is bad sizing considering stacks. I wouldn't choose to squeeze as a bluff at all here, but if I did I'd shove.

I would fold JJ here against what I perceive to be very strong ranges. If I'm playing I'm shoving, never flatting.
1/3 Uncapped. JJ facing 3/bet 5-handed Quote
01-11-2019 , 12:18 AM
I think I'm calling here. Our hand is strong enough that we want to see a flop for sure, but I'm not sure that it stands up against the range of hands BTN is likely to call with. He's shown real strength, and in the absence of any metagame implications, it is (in my mind) best to play strategically sound. If no one else calls you already have an SPR of less than 1. So my plan would be to commit on any flop with no overs.
1/3 Uncapped. JJ facing 3/bet 5-handed Quote
01-11-2019 , 12:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141
If I'm playing I'm shoving, never flatting.
I know I have a lot to learn, but this seems backwards to me. BTN is never calling a shove with anything we beat and is folding all the hands that would give us any value. If we flat and take a flop, we have a favorable SPR and have a chance to fold out AK and AQ type hands that missed rather than giving them two more chances to catch. Like I said, I have a lot to learn so if I'm wrong I'm willing to admit it.
1/3 Uncapped. JJ facing 3/bet 5-handed Quote
01-11-2019 , 12:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_lose
I know I have a lot to learn, but this seems backwards to me. BTN is never calling a shove with anything we beat and is folding all the hands that would give us any value. If we flat and take a flop, we have a favorable SPR and have a chance to fold out AK and AQ type hands that missed rather than giving them two more chances to catch. Like I said, I have a lot to learn so if I'm wrong I'm willing to admit it.
You can never flat here at this level and with these stacks. I think this is a fold unless you know for a fact button villain will never call all in with AK, KK, or QQ. And odds on that are slim if they are a winning player. This is a super meta-game bluff representing AA that rarely works. And then you have to factor in the ‘bad luck’ if first raiser actually has AA or KK.

Marsh
1/3 Uncapped. JJ facing 3/bet 5-handed Quote
01-11-2019 , 12:57 AM
Rather play 108o in single raised pot than JJ in 3 bet pot in middle of PFR and 3bettor. Add in there is no postflop play easy fold.
1/3 Uncapped. JJ facing 3/bet 5-handed Quote
01-11-2019 , 01:59 AM
Fairly easy fold, QQ is slightly interesting
1/3 Uncapped. JJ facing 3/bet 5-handed Quote
01-11-2019 , 09:58 AM
Less than 100 bbs I’m getting it in here. Also what’s up with the stack sizes? Three “solid” players and no one even has 100bbs..?
1/3 Uncapped. JJ facing 3/bet 5-handed Quote
01-11-2019 , 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnapCall95
Less than 100 bbs I’m getting it in here. Also what’s up with the stack sizes? Three “solid” players and no one even has 100bbs..?
I similarly chuckled at how the OP highlighted this being an "uncapped" game.
1/3 Uncapped. JJ facing 3/bet 5-handed Quote
01-11-2019 , 12:02 PM
I certainly hope we're on the table change list because ain't no one beating the rake at this table.

Stacks are way too small for anyone solid to be getting out-of-line here. Trivial fold for me.

Gtablechange!G
1/3 Uncapped. JJ facing 3/bet 5-handed Quote
01-11-2019 , 02:51 PM
Sounds like a fold to me too unless you have more info. In your 5 handed scenario HJ = UTG. An UTG open to 7x, as was mentioned earlier, usually indicates strength. What was the standard open sizes for other players? I realize HJ/UTG is fairly new. When BTN 3 bets over the strong open and the overcall that looks very strong as well. How long has BTN been at the table? How often is BTN 3 betting? If standard sizings have been $20+ and the BTN has been doing a ton of 3 betting then I can get behind a 4 bet even though I still prefer a fold.
1/3 Uncapped. JJ facing 3/bet 5-handed Quote
01-11-2019 , 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadtoPro
Live 1/3 game. 3/5 players including hero are winning players, other 2 are unknown/semi-unknown but seem solid.

HJ- ($200)
CO- ($200)
BTN- ($275)
Hero (SB)- ($225)
BB- ($100)

Unkwown HJ Opens to $22. Player only sat down few orbits ago but first time he has opened.
CO overcalls. Range is capped because he shows aggression with strong holdings.
BTN 3-bets to $75. Standard TAG player but very capable of squeezing. Don't have proof of player squeezing but wouldn't be surprised. Value heavy when money gets in. No big meta-game dynamics at play here.

On to me in the SB with JJ. Would you shove, fold, or flat here?

And out of curiosity, is this a good spot to squeeze on the BTN, with A5s for example, against unknown opposition at low-mid stakes? Looking to implement a squeezing range in my game against tougher opposition.
A lot of small stacks here. Are you topping off when you're BTN?

I'd probably go all in here. Not enough read for me to think JJ isn't going to make money as a jam here.
1/3 Uncapped. JJ facing 3/bet 5-handed Quote
01-11-2019 , 02:59 PM
This isn't a trivial fold, but it's a fold. QQ is more tricky, KK is a shove.

Flatting here with any cards is horrible.
1/3 Uncapped. JJ facing 3/bet 5-handed Quote
01-11-2019 , 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_lose
I know I have a lot to learn, but this seems backwards to me. BTN is never calling a shove with anything we beat and is folding all the hands that would give us any value. If we flat and take a flop, we have a favorable SPR and have a chance to fold out AK and AQ type hands that missed rather than giving them two more chances to catch. Like I said, I have a lot to learn so if I'm wrong I'm willing to admit it.
We have a chance to fold out AK/AQ and give them no shot at realizing their equity. We allow worse hands to play perfectly against us and realize all of their equity. Just because we move in "for value" doesn't mean we don't prefer to get hands to fold.
1/3 Uncapped. JJ facing 3/bet 5-handed Quote
01-11-2019 , 03:05 PM
Curious to everyone, but what do we anticipate everyone's ranges to be? Even if our read is bad and we only get snapped off by QQ+, we make money if this gets through 58%. If we start getting called by JJ+/AK, this has to work 32%. Guy in the middle is almost never calling and JJ+/AK is only 40 combos pre-removal. Seems like we'll get enough folds and have enough equity when called to justify moving in here. Maybe BTN's 3 bet range or HJ's open range is just way tighter than I'm used to in these table dynamics?
1/3 Uncapped. JJ facing 3/bet 5-handed Quote
01-11-2019 , 03:10 PM
The open from HJ to $22 (x7) is significant.
CO call is likely a spec type Hand.
BTN Re-Raise to 75 (into a $48 dollar pot) might very well be a Squeeze

If it is indeed ABC TAG type poker Players as you describe then I believe I would fold in this spot.
If I had other reads that Ranged players differently or could factor in some semi-bluffs into their Range then might consider Call.

HJ is likely to call $53 into a 123 pot (2.3 to 1) or even Push.
CO is likely to call $53 into a 176 pot (3.3 to 1).

When Flop Comes what are you hoping to see w/ JJ against three opponents. Undercards or a one of two Jacks.
After Flop you'll check out of position. What do you do if HJ/CO/BTN throws out a CBET - have to fold right?

Pushing Pre - and you may steal Pot - or loose stack if called by Monsters or Hands that Stack up well against your Pair Like AK.
1/3 Uncapped. JJ facing 3/bet 5-handed Quote
01-11-2019 , 04:26 PM
@browni3141- Makes sense. Thanks!

@I-lose- I don't like flatting because of what others have said but maybe if I was a little deeper? I agree with your thought process. Thanks!

@MarshMan114- Makes sense. Thanks!

@mikko- Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

@minatorr- Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

@SnapCall95- This is what I chose to do, maybe folding is the best line as others have said. I buy in for $200 and top off whenever I fall under. I am a teenager who plays part-time in college so as of right now I am trying to practice good bankroll management. It shouldn't be long before I can buy in for 100bbs consistently. Can't speak for other players at table. I've seen people sit down for $1000 and stacks are usually pretty deep but this was an off night during the holidays. Thanks for your time!

@DrChessPain- It usually is relevant info, this time it wasn't. Thanks your your time!

@Gobbledygeek- Rake is illegal in Texas where I play so instead there is a $12/hr time charge. I think this makes short handed play preferable when considering rake alone. And makes sense. Thanks!

@c0rnBr34d- I agree. BTN has been at table for a couple hours. He hadn't been 3-betting too often but when he did it didn't go to showdown. Thanks!

@jdr0317- No, I buy in for $200 and top off whenever I fall under. I am a teenager who plays part-time in college so as of right now I am trying to practice good bankroll management. It shouldn't be long before I can buy in for 100bbs consistently. That's what I did based on information provided but maybe others are right about folding being the best play. Thanks!

@Railbird_1211- Makes sense. Thanks!

@dropnloads- I really like that thought process. That's how I play as well. Thanks!

I ended up shoving. Initial raiser folded. Overcaller folded. BTN called. He had KKs which held. The initial raiser said he folded 10s.

It seems as if a fold is the best play given the info I had. But I do think against capable opponents with wider ranges in that spot I think a shove makes sense as some have said so far. Maybe I gave the BTN too much credit here.
1/3 Uncapped. JJ facing 3/bet 5-handed Quote

      
m