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Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

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Old 03-10-2020, 05:47 AM   #1
Solomon_Peabody
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 203
1/3: Two big flops

Weekend, 1/3, 9-handed. Both hands I flopped big with eventual extremely negative result.

Hand 1
--------

Hero ($300) opens in MP to $20 with black aces in MP.
Villain A ($300, 70yo white male 20/5 wet noodle) calls in HJ
Villain B ($1300, 25yo white male 50/30 maniac, extremely aggressive postflop) calls on button

Flop ($64) Ah Js 3h

Hero checks, Villain A checks, Villain B checks

Turn ($64): Ks

Hero bets $45, Villain A folds, Villain B calls

River ($154): 6h

Hero checks, Villain B bets $135

What do you do? How should this have been played earlier?


Hand 2
--------

Four limpers, Hero ($480) has 7h5d in the BB and checks.

Flop ($16): 9c 8c 6h

Hero bets $13, Villain C ($550, 20/5 40yo male Asian fish) raises to $35, Hero calls

Turn ($86): Kd

Hero bets $90, Villain moves all in

What do you do? Should you have 3-bet flop?
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Old 03-10-2020, 07:46 AM   #2
Perrone66
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Posts: 146
Re: 1/3: Two big flops

Regarding Hand 1 - I would bet flop and turn, and most likely check sigh call river. Nothing you can do here differently then bet flop and turn.

Hand 2 - You could have 3bet flop but I believe V would have called or gone all in with a set or 10 7, or some crazy combo draw regardless. I wouldnt be upset its just bad luck tbh.

Also I would not post that the hand turned out poorly in the intro - it biases responses.

The biggest mistake imo that you made was slow playing hand 1.
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Old 03-10-2020, 08:05 AM   #3
PROPOSITION_JOE
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Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 850
Re: 1/3: Two big flops

Hand 1, we dont want to be slowplaying on a board like this - pretty wet board that plenty of non Ax hands get call bets with. 2/3 size flop bet. Turn brings in Q10 but can mostly improve villains hands numerous ways that we still beat, id bet turn even larger here (close to pot).
As played i sigh call but with flop and turn bets with right sizings we can turn a bit of grim decision into a trivial call, if it reaches the river. I think take home message is that AhJs3h is not a slow playing flop in the slightest.

hand 2 - cooler, unlucky.
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Old 03-10-2020, 09:49 AM   #4
Rathalos
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Re: 1/3: Two big flops

hand 1

otf i would bet.

its 3 handed, the board is kinda wet(flush and straight
draws and you dont block any of the draws). i wouldnt
slow play. imo theres a high chance the two V connects
with the board in some way and i want to get value from
them

otr i would call his bet. given his maniac
aggro description, top set is def enough to call here



hand 2

i would lean to checking turn, not sure what donking
turn accomplishes. Given V flop reraise, his hand looks
like 2pair, set or maybe some combo draw. very likely
he'll continue again ott

i wouldnt 3bet flop, thats showing too much strength.
i want him to continue with all his other TP,2pair hands
instead of reading me for a set or straight and folding
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Old 03-10-2020, 11:34 AM   #5
gobbledygeek
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Posts: 33,028
Re: 1/3: Two big flops

H1:

I just limp in here because I hate the preflop result. Handcuffing SPR of 4.6 where we'll have to commit postflop (especially since aggro guy on Button will likely get us to whenever he wants) and yet we offered both opponents 16:1+ IO (which is simply too good for my conservative tastes if I'm going to be committed postflop). This is really all about this difficult to play stack size, which is too large to make a reasonable preflop raise to comfortably commit against most, and too small to raise smaller and simply play a higher SPR with lots of room to play postflop. But that's me.

I think with the "wet noodle" in the hand, I just lean to playing a little more ABC and targeting his stack. With this awkward SPR and drawyness of board, I'd actually overbet the flop slightly to setup a turn shove. But another option is to check or bet really small to entice Button into losing his mind, so I don't hate that, but obviously it sometimes backfires especially non-HU (like it did here).

On the turn there's a lot more potential draws as well as potential big hands that could start paying off. Again, I'm looking to get stacks in, and basically the only way to do that (unless we think Villain is going to go nutso to smaller bets) is to slightly overbet the turn to setup a river shove. Our $45 leaves us with $235 into a $154 pot for the river which is far too large.

River sucks but against this guy you probably can't fold, especially given he probably would have bet the flop (although you give away what likely happened in your first line).

One of the single biggest benefits of raising preflop (which is discussed in the AA How Many Callers? thread) is that when we actually do flop a set that it becomes trivial to get the money in. And yet we're taking a betting route that is somehow making that difficult in a lol 4.6 pot.

One of the other big reasons I lean to getting in all the chips by the turn in committed SPRs like these is because by the time the river comes around there'll be enough scary hands that look to come in that we'll often miss value by not getting chips in (or simply get beat and now getting in the majority of the chips when behind instead of ahead). Consider how devastating it is when he checks behind with better hands that would have considered putting in more money postflop.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 03-10-2020, 11:39 AM   #6
gobbledygeek
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Re: 1/3: Two big flops

H2:

I'm fine with preflop.

I'm fine with the flop. This deep we simply can't be working towards stacks; if we get in stacks with the second nuts this deep, it ain't a cooler, it's just poor play (imo).

I don't mind donking the turn, but I hate our sizing. This sizing now puts stacks more in play (which we want to avoid, imo). I'd bet no more than 1/2 PSB as it will charge most draws just fine and meanwhile prevents building to big a pot. This deep I'd probably fold to the shove. If the dude is aggro, I wouldn't mind a check/calldown mode either and let him continue bluffing busted draws.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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