9 players

hj (Hero J J): $700
co: $600
button: $300

preflop:
mp limps, hero raises to $15, co + button calls, blinds fold, mp folds

been playing with co for about 3 hrs. he's Taggish and seems competent.
he's also not afraid of betting big. I've seen him bet $100 on the river on a busted draw when the pot was about $125. (opponent called and won.)

button is new.


flop ($52): 2 7 8
Hero bets $25, co calls, button folds

turn ($102): J
Hero checks, co bets $100, Hero?

a straight is now possible thus my check.
the big bet seems suspicious even if i didnt see him bluff big in the past.
What do you put him on?

im tempted to raise to $250.
What would you do?

Not very worried about the straight here against competent taggish reg.

He’s much more likely to have a set. And if 10-9 is in his range so is 8-7.

Your hand also looks like Ak/Aq/middle pair, so he might be getting squirrelly and trying to take it down in position.

If you call it is strong and he gives up his bluffs. If he has a hand might as well get it in now. I like raising to 220 here.

Does he have T9 or spades. My bankroll, turned set, I rip.

I woulda bet hit call now and ck riv. He has sets and 87 too. I’d like to keep all of those hands and his bluffs healthy.

Checking turn is very bad. AP guess you have to call and c/jam river but you put yourself in a silly spot.

More pre - we don’t want to play JJ multi-way oop.

Flop okay, there may be an argument for slightly larger size. Turn check is MUBSy but this error may have induced a huge error from the V with 2 pair. AP: I’m calling and letting him spew on river. If he has one of the 4 T9s that could have called pre, that’s poker.

Hi,

Checking is bad here. I would continue betting as I feel if he had made his straight, he won’t bet that big to chase you off. He might have tubs here imo.

As played, I would raise to $280+.
Keep us updated on how the hand run out.


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Without further information I like this raise.

What we put him on depends on what he has seen you do this line with. You played with him for 3 hours and finds him competent.

What have you done before with this line. If you folded then I like the raise.

If you x/called a pot bet and the x/called river I would call and evaluate.

Point is he can have many hands depending on your history. Without any reads top set is way too strong and being out of position for river I’m putting more money.

wha?
why is checking turn bad?

how much would you have bet on the turn?
if he calls, how much are you betting on the riv?

-what if he raises on turn and shoves river?
-what if he calls turn and raises on river?

larger bet on a rainbow flop?

yeah, seeing monsters under the bed.
been burned too many times by betting out a scare card and getting raised.


Whats your thought on why checking the turn is bad?

as for continue betting because 'he won’t bet that big to chase you off', i wouldnt have that knowledge if i led turn.
and yeah, i'll post the result in a few days

Sorry there was a typo there. I mean as for me I would continue betting as I don’t want to lose value for that street. As played you checking on turn I feel he might have tubs. Playing too scare poker will end up losing value.


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even though we've been at the same table for 3hrs, we've never been heads up before.

he has seen me a few times cbet flop while IN POSITION, check turn, and either fold/call a river bet, depending if the river card helped me.
so i guess he knows when i check turn, i'm weak. (ugg.. a leak i need to plug with either a river raise or checking tp/overpair once for show.)

this is the 1st time ive raised pre AND cbet while OOP.
other times when i raised pre and am OOP, i've either c/c or c/f on the flop.

why would someone bet so big on this board if they flopped a set? (poker dictionary says tubs = Three of a kind with another pair)

my way of looking at it is c/c on a scare card preserves my stack when i have a hand and also allows villain a chance to bluff.
your way might work better at 2/5 and above?

My country when they say tubs = 2 pairs


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I would raise then. If I was villain I would bet this on a semi bluff a lot of times vs a hero that has shown check as weakness. If I had the nuts I would size smaller for value.

You will protect your x turn range and he’ll kick himself for getting check raised if he is semi bluffing and remember this in the future.

If we're checking turn here to "preserve our stack" instead of trying to induce a bluff then we need to realize we're on tilt. I know people think of being on tilt as just a rage induced bad hour of poker, but this is a good example of how it can snowball into our standard tendencies.

You just said that villain made a huge bet that was a bluff earlier but when he does it this time he must have a straight?

Think about villains range of hands in this situation, he has plenty of sets, draws, 2 pairs, combo draws, and then one straight.

Also if he did turn a straight, why would he make a massive pot sized bet? We're showing weakness and he turned the nuts. He's not getting nearly enough calls to make this pot sized bet.

Is there a reason we are sitting directly OOP to a competent and not-always-face-up deepstack?

I probably do something different preflop but that's me.

I'm fine with betting smallish on the flop. I hate life when CO calls, although he can't be getting too out-of-line with Button still to react.

Think I'm fine with checking and calling the turn. One of the only draws got there, but otherwise he could easily still be betting worse (such as sets / two pair) for value, plus he might just be attempting to own us in position. Give him rope for both his bluffs and his worse value hands. Admittedly there will be lots of gross rivers that we may have to deal with.

Gpokeriseasierinposition,don'tunderestimateit,imoG

Because you have top set FFS.

Probably the same as he bet - about $100.

The rest of my chips.

You have TOP SET. You should be trying to pile all the money in on the turn and/or river. If you don't get all your money in the middle with this hand, you played it horribly wrong.

You are suffering from a condition called MUBS. It's short for "monsters under the bed syndrome". You fear monsters under the bed even though there aren't any; in poker this translates to you being afraid that villain has the one hand you are losing to on the turn, and ignore the fact that there are dozens and dozens that you are beating. If you don't stop playing so scared, you are dead money at the table.

I always bet this turn and I'm hoping to get raised. Yeah it can be the one straight and yeah that's happened to me but we are crushing sets, two pair hands etc.

I think it's a generally a bad error to not continue barrelling when your hand massively strengthens in a way which is not apparent to your opponent. If he can beat one pair, he should be licking his lips right now.

When you cbet then hit a turn card that makes your hand way stronger, it makes sense to keep betting, right?

As played: certainly, villain could have T9. Can you think of other combinations villain might want to start betting for value? I think a slowplayed set and turned two pair are both possible.

If villain could be value betting worse you should not fold. If you're ahead of villain's calling range, go ahead and raise. IMO a raise here is a bit thin and we'll be value-owning ourselves too often.

Really. Raising with top set is a bit thin? Value owning ourselves?

WTF is going on in this thread

I admit I take a more passive route that most in this forum, and that's possibly because I likely have a far more nittier image (and thus I may have to eke out bets by showing weakness / inducing more aggro players who have position on me to bet the nit off his hand). But there are always two ways to eke out bets. Against face up ABC passive clueless calling stations, but all means, lean to betting, even with a nit image OOP. But that line isn't always the best line against more competent players, which is why I think checking can be fine in this case.

FWIW, our weak check just caused a PSB to go into the pot on the turn. I highly doubt the only time it goes in when we weakly check is when he has us beat (or has a worse monster), so this is a good thing and therefore I don't get the hate for it (although ok with hating on any thoughts of folding).

Guseless2centsG

Based on OP and the image he sees himself as having, the raise recommendation is to balance out his check turn line.

In this situation, based on action, this isn’t so much for value as for shutting down the semi-bluff. Villains bet looks weak and we want him to hate himself for trying this play and charging him for a A8s or 65o type hand.

Otherwise the other options is to x/C, x/F, B/if board pairs on river which are two unhappy choices and one obvious strength when you holding top set.

Yeah, I take it back, this is extremely mubs

x this flop hu, let alone mw
x turn is correct, you're really not supposed to bet anything at this point and I think a small raise is pretty nice and you would x/r small your turned fds, straights and sets
x/c is obv fine as well but not having a calling range looks to simplify the game tree