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1/3: Turn the nuts, slowplay or shove? 1/3: Turn the nuts, slowplay or shove?

03-17-2014 , 07:47 PM
V has just sat down at table with a full stack and seems like a 25 y.o. young decent online player from his hoodie and demeanor

V raises to $12, Hero calls with T8cc

Flop ($26): As Jc 7d
V bets $20, Hero calls

Turn ($66): 9c
V checks, Hero bets $40, V raises to $140, Hero ???

V has $220 behind.. Hero has him covered

Last edited by fizzypants; 03-17-2014 at 08:16 PM.
1/3: Turn the nuts, slowplay or shove? Quote
03-17-2014 , 08:06 PM
So you have T8 I guess? Shove only 220 for him to call to win 560. He calls with all sets and probably AJ. Not much he is check raising with here that he isn't willing to stack off with. Also fold pre and fold flop, not gonna do the math right now but don't think you are getting the implied odds to hit your gutter ball.

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1/3: Turn the nuts, slowplay or shove? Quote
03-17-2014 , 08:16 PM
Sorry yes T8cc.. I mostly always fold flop but was a bit tilted/gambooly and called because I had the backdoor fd too otf
1/3: Turn the nuts, slowplay or shove? Quote
03-17-2014 , 09:48 PM
Grunch

I'd fold this PF, especially if none of the bad players are in there.

On the flop with only a gutshot and backdoor fd I'm folding as well.

On the turn I shove. He probably wouldn't fear the straight that much and there are a lot of hands he could have here. Also if the flush comes in on the river, he might not be as eager to get his chips in.
1/3: Turn the nuts, slowplay or shove? Quote
03-17-2014 , 10:12 PM
What position is villain in?

If this is an LP scenario you can call the flop easily. Though the point isn't to hit your draw you can also bet the turn and pick up the pot when he c/f a lot of the time.

Though against most I'm fold pf. With better reads you can call maybe but it's not just to hit your hand, I'd be floating and bluff raising certain flops.

As played id just shove
1/3: Turn the nuts, slowplay or shove? Quote
03-17-2014 , 10:14 PM
Preflop should be fold unless there are other villains in hand and you have position, in which case you can venture a loose call occasionally looking for a good flop. On flop, you don't have good enough direct or implied odds to call with nothing but a gut shot draw and a back door flush. With a better read on villain you could call here occasionally to take it away on turn, but you need a better read on villain's range and play style.

When villain check/raises turn he probably has a hand he isn't putting down, it isn't clear what cards you need to dodge (if any) and there are cards that kill any action on river. Shove now. It is very unlikely villain is putting you on anything as good as you have, and might call with fairly weak hands. He might call with just top pair if he thinks your shoving a draw or a pair+draw here.
1/3: Turn the nuts, slowplay or shove? Quote
03-17-2014 , 10:19 PM
Please post position in the future.

I don't mind your play all that much. Prefer to have a better idea of V's tendencies when making a loose call on the flop to steal on turn but meh...believe you should be getting most of the info you want on the turn. Without any reads on the villain...don't want any cards on the river stopping his action so I'm shoving over the top of his raise.
1/3: Turn the nuts, slowplay or shove? Quote
03-17-2014 , 10:42 PM
100% shoving the turn.

I've never seen a villain ck/rs 2/5 of their stack on the turn and fold.

Super standard shove.
1/3: Turn the nuts, slowplay or shove? Quote
03-18-2014 , 03:23 AM
Fold or 3bet pre. And I'm folding without reads.

Floating the flop IP is fine.

Bet turn bigger, $55 or so.

Villain is not folding after this bomb, ship it.
1/3: Turn the nuts, slowplay or shove? Quote
03-18-2014 , 12:12 PM
Even though we will be in position, and the price is quite decent, preflop is not a slam dunk call because of the pure and simple fact that we think we are up against a good opponent. We're simply not going to make that much money off a good opponent postflop here. I'd rather be going multiway and have some fish trapped in the hand.

I would have raised the flop. We're like 50/50 with A high hands and still have position and lots of stack behind, so we can afford to face a 3bet. We have decent FE against non A pairs / air / etc. Plus we can give ourselves the option of taking a free card on the turn if we desire.

On the turn, if we just call then we'll only have about 2/3 of a PSB left on the river, plus we'll be in position, so no problem in getting stacks in then. We have practically the unbeatable nuts (unless he's on a royal flush draw and binks), so we're never worried about being sucked out on in a big pot. So the only concern is whether our opponent can get away from his hand if a scare card comes on the river. If the opponent has a set and a fourth club comes, or perhaps a T/8 to create a 4-card-straight, I think it's possible he could sigh fold. That's quite a lot of scare cards, so I would ship now, especially since a turn check/raiser is rarely folding.

ETA: Whoops, I though we made our straight flush. So there ain't as many scare cards that could totally kill it (I'm not sure anyone is folding a big hand for 2/3 of a PSB just cuz a 3-to-a-flush comes in, although they might if the 4-to-a-straight comes in). Still, I think I'd just shove as turn check/raisers are so rarely folding. Plus we could be free rolling.

ETA: Cripes my reading comprehension is crap today. I though we flopped a flush draw and a gutshot, but it looks like we only flopped a gutshot. Pretty easy fold on the flop unless we think getting tricky on later streets is going to be profitable.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Last edited by gobbledygeek; 03-18-2014 at 12:17 PM.
1/3: Turn the nuts, slowplay or shove? Quote
03-19-2014 , 08:35 PM
I shoved over V's c/r and he folded A9 for $220 more, saying that I must have hit AJ or something.
1/3: Turn the nuts, slowplay or shove? Quote
03-19-2014 , 11:33 PM
You hit your gin card. Shovel the. Money in the pot already.
1/3: Turn the nuts, slowplay or shove? Quote
03-20-2014 , 03:03 AM
grunch: shove

he could be sitting on a flush draw or better straight draw... always like to make villains pay for those. shoving may also cause spew. if villain likes his hand, he's probably just as likely, if not more so, to call on turn than on river. so just get it in.

not sure about the preflop. even less sure about the flop. but we hit the card we needed on the turn so let's get it in and make it worth it!
1/3: Turn the nuts, slowplay or shove? Quote
03-20-2014 , 04:16 AM
Fold pre or 3bet if your intention was to gambol in the first place. Take initiative.

Fold flop with that disgusting gutter draw

I would call turn raise and let him shove river unless board pairs and then I'd tread lightly. We have a flush draw, but we don't want that hitting, but it also diminishes the possibility he has 2 clubs as well. I don't mind a shove here either but if he is a good thinking player I think he will sniff out the fact you called flop, bet turn, then shoved his raise on your turn bet. I don't think there is anything wrong with shoving, I can just see us getting more value with just calling the turn raise.
If we only had one or no clubs, I would shove the turn no questions asked.

OTR, I am calling an all in, shoving a check/small bet and fist pumping to the bank

Last edited by RyanAA44; 03-20-2014 at 04:22 AM.
1/3: Turn the nuts, slowplay or shove? Quote
03-20-2014 , 04:35 AM
I would have tried a speech like "well, if you can beat AK, then you got me" before shoving. Or something like, "you're on the flush draw, huh?" and then shoved.
Don't know if it would make a difference. But for some players it makes them feel more confident about their hand to call.
1/3: Turn the nuts, slowplay or shove? Quote
03-20-2014 , 05:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzypants
I shoved over V's c/r and he folded A9 for $220 more, saying that I must have hit AJ or something.
that's cool, still plenty of hands he calls with, and many players would never fold A9 either.
1/3: Turn the nuts, slowplay or shove? Quote
03-21-2014 , 12:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzypants
I shoved over V's c/r and he folded A9 for $220 more, saying that I must have hit AJ or something.
This is where a lot of decent winners stop and players who destroy the game don't. If he called with K-high, you would know there's no need to slowplay in the future against him. When he lays down 2pair, you need to realize that you can steal pots from him by 3betting light late in the hand. He either doesn't think you're capable of bluffs or he's MUBS, use it.
1/3: Turn the nuts, slowplay or shove? Quote
03-21-2014 , 03:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiesel
This is where a lot of decent winners stop and players who destroy the game don't. If he called with K-high, you would know there's no need to slowplay in the future against him. When he lays down 2pair, you need to realize that you can steal pots from him by 3betting light late in the hand. He either doesn't think you're capable of bluffs or he's MUBS, use it.
Ya I guess if you're not playing regularly with the same V's there's no need to slow down...
Just shove it. F it.
1/3: Turn the nuts, slowplay or shove? Quote

      
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