All the boats are possible. Some Villains are trappy and some would do a scared money x/c on the river with the weakest boats. But, our Villains are more non-believers than anything else, so I believe river is a shove because we need to discount the boats pretty heavily due to the action and they will make some pretty bad calls in this spot often enough with the combos we beat.

OMG raise pre, shove river, and make sure you understand that there are only a few meh rivers when you raise turn (non d 7JQ). Considering that neither T on board is a diamond, I would consider this a pretty cool river.

Grunch: I'm b/f 1/3 pot to get looked up by JT/QT. I'm expecting to get x/r by only the nuts. If we run into a bigger straight, so be it. There's enough value to be had by betting IMO.

Edit: just noticed stack sizes, shove river. We can't b/f here, might as well try and look like we are polarized. Dunno if AK calls here but Tx not full looks us up a ton.

We're going to attempt to narrow field against 4 limpers / bloat pot with 7 high?

Gmeh,imoG

ISO the spot, force any others to play fit fold post with terrible relative position. Sometimes win the blinds. Lot's of good stuff for throwing in a few red birds otb.

What does limping offer?

A $15 raise (a few redbirds) in a straddled pot after 4 limpers will get exactly zero folds in my game; I'd need to go $35+ easy if part of my goal is to sometimes take it down preflop. And good luck steamrolling the field postflop; are we planning on cbetting 5ways when we whiff (if we are even given the chance since people often don't check to the raiser 5ways)?

Limping offers us a chance to see a cheap flop in position with a very speculative hand, and hopefully we're up against some big hands (some that were possibly limping to reraise) which we can do well against postflop.

I'll admit the I believe lowly suited connectors are highly overrated in multiway pots, but I'm guessing they are still profitable (especially in position) and especially in high SPR pots where we have enough room to have some play.

GcluelesslimpingnoobG

V almost certainly has a pair and a gutter on the turn. like TJ, TQ, 9J, 9Q. maybe even KJ or KQ.

as played, go for silly value and hope that V spazzes out.

bet 40-60 and either hope that V pushes or he pads your win.

Not literally 3 chips. Go bigger than normal and iso this guy, all kinds of flops to make money on HU.

Now flip the script and say you were one of the overlimpers w AJo like the other thread, now I raise. Do you call pre? Do you call the Vs turn bet AP w nut gutter?
How do you continue well w AJ in any case when I raise btn w 76s? You’re f****d. If you had raised AJo over limps, I’m f****d. Limping sucks.

at 67 Straddles effective and a meh image I don't think the spot warrants "OMG" status. Is it better than checking our option? Probably/maybe.

once we button straddle and get this action at this stack depth checking pre is fine.

Not fine otb against this:

I refuse to allow BB and limpers to get freerolls at this guys stack. Not otb, not w a hand like this that can still maintain playability even 5 ways when otb.

Why are we so concerned that others are also freerolling this guy?

How much is it going to take to take to isolate this guy? Especially considering that if he calls then it's more likely the other 2 guys after him will also come along. Our large raise (which will be necessary to have any attempts at isolating) doesn't have to face a 3bet all that often to be a disaster.

And what about postflop? Sounds like this guy could be aggro in places. Our hand is going to remain extremely mediocre (at best) most of the time; if this guy rolls over all the time to a cbet, fine, but he doesn't sound like that to me.

Gmeh,imoG

Couldn’t care less about being 3b, since it happens so rarely. Again, very very few hands want to be 3b but that doesn’t make raising them wrong. The disaster is in the limpers’ court when you’re doing the 2b and they either limp-c hands “not good enough” to raise in the first place (sure they were) or limp 3b hands that would have done better raising in the first place.

I don’t mean to be overly Aggro in the thread, but I know that 9.5/10 times everyone reading this is gonna just check and think it’s “fine” because, hey, we get to see a flop otb for free/at face value there is no clear path to +ev raising>checking... but man, live game, there ain’t no way GG that I’m letting you limp over the spot for nothing and get shots at flopping hands to scoop up the free cash, that’s my money.

Also, OP, when you make a hand as strong as a straight against a non-nit, you really want to just stack off pike any reasonable amount, even when it’s like the 10th nuts. As long as there are a lot of worse calling hands available, pile.

I get it. And I've learned a lot from this thread in particular. At the table I had a range in mind for V when he called the turn raise, and I couldn't construct a wide enough river calling range for him that I had at least 50% equity against. I now realize that there are enough Tx + gutter/OESD hands in V's range OTT (and he's even wider than I thought since he had AK), so value bet was mandatory.

That's why we have these threads though, we don't always have the time/clarity to unpack all that at the table in the moment.

Don’t sweat calling ranges too hard as you approach the higher end of your ranges. Especially against guys like this that sometimes just punt in spots out of frustration or just terrible play. Hands like K8 and 98 might still call, sometimes just to see your hand and then show the table how unlucky he got. Should always lean on the self-destructive nature of gamblers.

So if hero shoves river I would imagine villain never calls anyway. I would think V only calls super small bets here.