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1/3 Troube with QQ (two hands) 1/3 Troube with QQ (two hands)

04-21-2015 , 06:37 PM
Both of these hands were from my 1/3 session on Monday night

Hand 1 - Facing a flop raise with over pair

Hero (500, UTG+1): Second hand at table. White, young 20's kid.
Villain (covers, MP): Young Asian guy. Watched him play a while back and seemed to err on the loose passive side. Far more recreational than a grinder.

Pre: Live 6, Hero opens QQ to 20, Villain calls in MP, Asian lady calls on B (200eff).
Flop(65): 689 Hero bets 45/65, Villain quickly pushes out a raise to 100 (feels very defensive IMO), Asian lady folds. Hero?
If you're continuing, what is your plan on later streets?


Hand 2 - Facing two limp reraises

Hero (Covers, B): Tag image, have only shown down strong holdings and mostly winners at showdown.
V1 (67, MP): Same lady from previous hand, has been bleeding pretty quickly, and ready to gamble with anything decent.
V2 (370, CO): Older white man (50's). Seems to be holding onto his money pretty closely. Sometimes raises but mostly limp happy (likes to get to flops cheap and play fit or fold post). Very low bluff/aggression frequency.

Pre: UTG limps, V1 limps, V2 limps, hero opens QQ to 20 on B (a little small), MP shoves 67 (incredibly wide range, not worried at all), but then the older man CO pops to 166 with just over 200 more back? Hero?? His reraise felt like he didn't really want a call and he was pretty shaky, but at the same time I was so confused by the cutoff limp reraising here...
1/3 Troube with QQ (two hands) Quote
04-21-2015 , 07:08 PM
Hand 1 has lots of options. If he's passive, though, folding might be best. I guess you could call and be willing to bet/call/gii on blank turns, but there aren't many of those. W/o better reads, folding is OK. I probably call and re-evaluate, though, since it's basically a min-raise.

Hand 2 is a gross fold, but it's a fold.
1/3 Troube with QQ (two hands) Quote
04-21-2015 , 08:58 PM
Hand 1: Unless he has a history of minraising draws this is a fold. He probably either has you beat already or has a big draw.

Against a villain who does like to make small raises with draws, then call and see what happens on turn. Mostly though your trying to get to river cheaply. Probably give up if he bets again and check behind if he checks. This doesn't fit the loose/passive description though.

Hand 2: Gross situation. This depends entirely on the old mans ability to iso raise. He has to know that MP is super wide also and he wants you out. Stack sizes mean your options are shove or fold. Without some read on what his iso range is, I think I find a fold here. Mostly because when you shove your only getting called if your beat, so your really risking $350 to find out when the pots is < $250 and there is still a chance MP wins the main pot anyways.

Against a more aggro player I probably shove here. I don't expect them to ever have AA/KK and discount AK. Your often in good shape against an AQ/JJ/TT type hand that figures your making a loose LP raise. Against an old passive limper, I want a better read on his range first.
1/3 Troube with QQ (two hands) Quote
04-22-2015 , 05:07 AM
Thanks for the replies. Here are my results/thoughts:

Spoiler:
On Hand 1, I didn't think he'd play many draws that way (except maybe a pair/draw combo with some showdown value like 910s) so I weighted most of his range to 10s or better, which probably justifies a fold. Yet I called thinking he'd shut down 910/10s/Js on all turns. The turn bricked low (3r) and it checked. The river bricked low again (2r) and I decided to half pot for value into 10s/Js, but ended up running into KK. As played, I could have also C/C'ed the river vs missed draws, but it was still hard for me to see many draws in his range.


Spoiler:
Hand 2, I folded pre. However, I wasn't too surprised to see MP turn over a weak Ax and the CO had pocket 10s.
QuadJ, I like your point that it's hard to extract another dollar from worse hands (except maybe AK), yet all better hands snap call a shove. That was a big part of why I folded.
1/3 Troube with QQ (two hands) Quote
04-22-2015 , 07:14 AM
Seems like some standards 'spots' ..

Hand 1 .. Loose Passive? He raised .. that's not passive. Proceed with caution or get out!! It's a decent price, so I probably call and go into c/c mode even if I hit a set (makes strt).

Hand 2 .. V2 has too much behind really. But these spots come down to more V image of Hero than Hero's image of V. It wasn't a l/r, so you do have the full range of raising hands in the mix here IMO. Especially if V has low image of Hero (or just no image) this could drop down to TT+. If you can throw in any AK/AQ then you can stick around with QQ and evaluate the Flop action ... AA/KK over and JJ/TT/AK/AQ below. Since you are 'counting' on MP being dead money most of the time, I can see making this call. But make sure you have a plan for all boards against OMC. You obviously pick up $100 if you shove here (and freeroll the main), but I still think he has too much behind for that move. GL
1/3 Troube with QQ (two hands) Quote
04-22-2015 , 11:06 AM
I'd fold both. As has been mentioned above, when passive players suddenly morph into aggressive players, you need a damn big hand to win. You'd happen to have beaten the TT guy, but that's got to be the bottom of his range as you described him.
1/3 Troube with QQ (two hands) Quote
04-22-2015 , 11:43 AM
H1:

I'd just fold now. We can't stack off this deep with just an overpair, we'll be OOP on the turn, and there's a bunch of cards we hate, plus we could be behind now (or even so-so against a good draw).

H2:

Weird spot, unless us or the SB have been raising every single hand and old man was overlimping a huge hand to target us. Kinda a yikes spot, imo. If this guy literally never raises preflop (like always overlimps AA/etc.) then I hero fold here. Otherwise, I still think it's a weird spot and I'm really torn between jamming and nit folding. His postflop tendency of playing fit/fold (wait to hit a hand, otherwise get out) is kinda making me lean towards folding.

GcluelessNLnoobG
1/3 Troube with QQ (two hands) Quote
04-22-2015 , 04:18 PM
Check the flop on hand 1. I'd just go for 2 streets. And with that texture turn and river are the best 2, price the guys out ott when there's only 1 card left and their equity is minimal. And bet the river for value, draw hands can miss but pick up what they think is SD value.
1/3 Troube with QQ (two hands) Quote
04-22-2015 , 04:57 PM
^^^ Check flop on hand 1, bet fold turn/river

Hand 2, fold given villain descriptions
1/3 Troube with QQ (two hands) Quote

      
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