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Old 03-12-2019, 05:11 PM   #1
acepokerblog
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1/3: Trip Aces with Good Kicker; Flush Draw on the Board and Facing a Donk Bet

1/3 Live 10-Handed (No Rake, Time Charge)

Folds to me on the BTN. I have around $170.

I look down at Ad Qh.

SB and BB are typical 1/3 loose passives.

SB has around $250 and BB has around $130.

I raise to $15. They both call.

Flop ($45): As Ah 2h

SB checks. BB donks for $25.

Your play?
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Old 03-12-2019, 05:22 PM   #2
XtraScratch8
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Re: 1/3: Trip Aces with Good Kicker; Flush Draw on the Board and Facing a Donk Bet

I’m probably flatting here, hoping BB donks turn again, and trying to get it in on most turns.
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Old 03-12-2019, 05:54 PM   #3
gobbledygeek
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Re: 1/3: Trip Aces with Good Kicker; Flush Draw on the Board and Facing a Donk Bet

I'm fine with our preflop raise, it kinda takes the halfway point between our stack and the shortstack and typically sets up a fairly easy stack postflop with TP postflop in the average case.

With this small SPR my plan is to get all the chips in and with the board being slightly drawy probably sooner than later. With it being the shorterstacked BB who's donking, we'll have a PSB left against him if we call, so I think flatting to jam the turn is ok. But could also just raise now (which would probably be a jam with his remaining stack).

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 03-12-2019, 06:43 PM   #4
Ragequit99
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Re: 1/3: Trip Aces with Good Kicker; Flush Draw on the Board and Facing a Donk Bet

I'm happy flatting or shoving here depending on my read of V.

What do you guys think V leads this flop with?

I feel like he probably checks his AX so most of his leads are draws, pocket pairs or just stabbing with random unpaired hands. I guess that makes me more in favour of flatting and hoping he leads turn.
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Old 03-12-2019, 06:46 PM   #5
XtraScratch8
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Re: 1/3: Trip Aces with Good Kicker; Flush Draw on the Board and Facing a Donk Bet

Having the Queen of hearts and being completely okay with SB tagging along for the turn are both good reasons to flat here imo.
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Old 03-12-2019, 07:44 PM   #6
acepokerblog
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Re: 1/3: Trip Aces with Good Kicker; Flush Draw on the Board and Facing a Donk Bet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragequit99 View Post
I'm happy flatting or shoving here depending on my read of V.

What do you guys think V leads this flop with?

I feel like he probably checks his AX so most of his leads are draws, pocket pairs or just stabbing with random unpaired hands. I guess that makes me more in favour of flatting and hoping he leads turn.
My read was like 90% Ax. Most of these guys seem to be very passive when OOP versus preflop raisers.
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Old 03-12-2019, 08:17 PM   #7
XtraScratch8
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Re: 1/3: Trip Aces with Good Kicker; Flush Draw on the Board and Facing a Donk Bet

I’d posit that it’s hard to say with 90% certainty that his donk bet is Ax when you know with 100% where three of them are already.
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Old 03-13-2019, 05:08 AM   #8
Ragequit99
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Re: 1/3: Trip Aces with Good Kicker; Flush Draw on the Board and Facing a Donk Bet

I obviously don't know your game or the results of the hand so maybe you're right to think he leads his AX here but logically it doesn't make much sense to play trips for a donk against an aggro PFR.

Obviously it's perfect for hero if V has AX but that raises the issue of the wishful-thinking fallacy. This fallacy can be particularly pernicious because it's kind of subconscious.

Our subconscious tells us "it'd be great if V has a dominated hand he can pay me off with" and then it's very easy for our conscious mind to rationalize that by ONLY considering evidence and logic that supports our subconscious a priori wish that villain has been completed.

The same psychological thing happens when we're suffering MUBsy thinking except in that case our subconscious is telling us we're going to lose big rather than win big.

Last edited by Ragequit99; 03-13-2019 at 05:14 AM.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:34 AM   #9
Aulm
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Re: 1/3: Trip Aces with Good Kicker; Flush Draw on the Board and Facing a Donk Bet

There are three possible hand types that BB has.

Ax hands.
Likely candidate for a weak player to call PF from the BB and then donk out. Bets from weak players mean strength, and this kind of hand fits the bill. Do need to take into account that we have three Aces out, already though.

Flush draws.
A weak player would totally call PF with a hand like KJ and then donk a flop. But with the Q in our hand, and the A on the flop, that cuts out a lot of these combos.

Underpair
JJ-33. But I think that JJ-77 is the more likely range. I could totally see a weak player calling pre and then leading on a flop like this thinking that TT or something is good, as you can't possibly have three Aces right?

I think there is a chance that this player would check the first two hand types, to trap and draw cheap, although leading is also very plausible. But as we have blockers, I think this guys has the under pair and is testing the waters.

What do we do? Raising the first two types by $50 is okay, as they will still call. Then we can jam turn. I think the under pair will call raise then fold to a turn jam. Ditto flush draw. Ax calls the jam.

Just calling seems sucky. Let him draw for free? The most you can get is more value from the underpair, but it won't call a raise on the turn or river.

A bigger raise on the flop is too greedy and will scare off flush draws.

Raise to $75 on the flop, and then jam turn is the play.
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:53 AM   #10
pcarfan
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Re: 1/3: Trip Aces with Good Kicker; Flush Draw on the Board and Facing a Donk Bet

The aim now is to get V’s remaining $99 in the middle...

However a scare card (like a heart) stopping the action is real...didnt think about that (thanks GG)...otherwise, I’d check.

So, I’ll probabaly make it to like $65 now and remaining $50 later....or some combo like that.
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:01 AM   #11
StinkHolePatrol
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Re: 1/3: Trip Aces with Good Kicker; Flush Draw on the Board and Facing a Donk Bet

Don't slowplay your hands at low stakes ever. Especially against a shorty.

Raise now

If he has a flush draw he's never folding

If has trips he's never folding

If he has a pocket pair, he isn't going to put any more money in unless he boats up. He might pay off a small river bet if it checks through on the turn but if you flat/barrel turn he's folding.


The only time you should flat here is if you're like 300-400 bb deep with a good bb and raising just puts you in cooler spots where BB can only have a2/22 to continue vs an initial raiser.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:23 AM   #12
shorn7
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Re: 1/3: Trip Aces with Good Kicker; Flush Draw on the Board and Facing a Donk Bet

I am with Stink...I make a raise here, probably smallish to something like $65 and hope to induce a spazz. No way BB is ever folding any Ace and the flop is generally the place to make more bluffy moves like this when you have a good value hand (since folks won't believe you).

Also makes it very easy to GII on pretty much every turn (as I assume with Q, we are never folding).
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:51 AM   #13
Javanewt
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Re: 1/3: Trip Aces with Good Kicker; Flush Draw on the Board and Facing a Donk Bet

I see merit to flatting or raising. I'd hate to lose him with a raise, but I hate slow-playing in these spots. Tough one. I probably flat and hope SB comes along (or raises!).

So, I'm with flat flop and bet/shove turn.
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Old 03-13-2019, 03:56 PM   #14
acepokerblog
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Re: 1/3: Trip Aces with Good Kicker; Flush Draw on the Board and Facing a Donk Bet

1/3 Live 10-Handed (No Rake, Time Charge)

Folds to me on the BTN. I have around $170.

I look down at Ad Qh.

SB and BB are typical 1/3 loose passives.

SB has around $250 and BB has around $130.

I raise to $15. They both call.

Flop ($45): As Ah 2h

SB checks. BB donks for $25.

I raise to $70.

SB calls. BB goes all-in for $43 more above the $70. I call and SB calls.

Turn ($384): As Ah 2h 8s

SB checks. I go all-in for $43. SB calls.

We decide to run it twice.

SB has 8h 7h.

BB has Ac 5s.

First River: As Ah 2h 8s 5h

Second River: As Ah 2h 8s 6c

I chop both pots. BB chops the main pot. SB chops the side pot.

I think playing the hand fast on the flop is the way to go. In my poker room, it seems like there are enough people that will call big all-ins with a flush draw even on paired boards.

Even if I go all-in on the flop, I'm pretty sure SB insta-calls.

Plus, it fits my image. Since I buy in short ($100), I'm usually super tight and very aggressive pre and post flop. If they see that I'm playing my good hands very fast instead of slow playing, I should be able to get more folds on my big bets.

For example, 30 minutes after this hand, a couple of people left the table, so we were 5-handed or 6-handed (one guy kept taking breaks) with half the players straddling LOL.

I got a bunch of solid hands for shorthanded play so I was able to run over the table for about an hour. Raise $20-$30 pre, get 1-2 callers, c-bet the pot or a little bit higher, and they folded every time.

It was great since they didn’t realize that I was playing much looser preflop because the table was shorthanded.
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Old 03-13-2019, 04:03 PM   #15
Amanaplan
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Re: 1/3: Trip Aces with Good Kicker; Flush Draw on the Board and Facing a Donk Bet

I raise precisely never.
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Old 03-13-2019, 04:05 PM   #16
Amanaplan
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Re: 1/3: Trip Aces with Good Kicker; Flush Draw on the Board and Facing a Donk Bet

Oh man, just saw results.

RIT is precisely never. Dude, call flop.
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