BB ($500): Asian looking rec player, another guy at table keeps telling others that I'm the tightest player here, blah blah, so I don't think this guy will call me light obv.

Hero ($350ish): Hoodie, reg-looking, quiet, nitty.


2 limpers, Hero raises to $21 with AcQs, BB and a limper call

Flop ($70ish): Qc 8h 2s
BB checks, Limper checks, Hero bets $35, BB calls, Limper calls and says "hope I hit my gutshot, he's only got $3 left)

Turn ($175ish): Tc
BB checks, Hero ???

Not sure why this turn is scary. Keep betting.

Keep betting here for sure.

Curious as to why you left this guy with 3 dollars behind?

Did you not recognize what his stack was?

Nope, I was just concentrating on a standard $35 cbet into a $60 pot on a dry flop. Is that a mistake?

Scared of QTs and flopped sets. I feel like a bet OTT leaves us committed. What's your turn sizing and plan OTR?

In this specific sceneario not really,

But you can sometimes get into some spots if he had say 69 dollars and min-raised and you could not open the action,

Or if he had something like 50 and would peel a flop for any amount but will always fold brick turns, I have a HH on here where I made this mistake as a PRF and it cost me dearly.

We're not committed at all. It's an easy bet/fold on the turn for value. I don't have a plan for the river...we are on the turn...albeit taking initiative on the turn often allows us to control betting on the river.

What's your turn bet size then? The pot's $175, Hero has $245 behind (Hero's starting stack was $300, not $350) and BB has him covered.

FWIW, I bet $75 (small enough to let me bet/fold and keep worse Qs in) and BB folded. He later said "I had AQ too and almost shoved OTT hoping you'd fold AA/KK". And I believe him, given my nitty image. Is this good/bad?

So let's assume, he shoved AQ there, isn't bet/fold bad then?

The b/f is an exploitative play.

Your exploiting the fact that your villain has very narrow bluffing ranges, if your villain in questions has a very wide bluffing range then yes, b/f is bad.

Maybe a referal to our COTW would be helpful in this spot regarding commitment

W our believed percieved image, Half pot half pot check for showdown + info
B/f turn w no reads

I don't know why I wrote that, but I know I'm not at all committed OTT. It's just that I don't want to invest more in the pot just to fold to a raise. And the turn bet has to be big enough so it's kind of scary in absolute terms. Leak, I know.

The turn bet has to be big enough for what?

Yeah, this is a good turn card. b/f depends on the opponent. Most $1/3 players aren't going to c/shove worse than AQ, so you can safely fold. It's not always going to work 100% of the time.

I played recently with a guy who essentially shoved the equivalent of Q4o on this board over my turn bet. I folded the winner; but in the long run, it's a profitable play in LLSNL. Internet players have to adjust to all the b/f that happens in live games. Internet players will c/r as a bluff infinitely more than live players.

You don't need to scare people with your bets. I think betting smaller in b/f situations is fine. No one's going to exploit your turn bet sizing. They're going to play their hand and, in this case, possibly your nitty image. In fact, it would be good if KQ and QJ weren't too scared. I don't have a problem with the turn bet size.

i dont know how the turn is scary either... You still bet/fold the turn. If he calls the turn. reevaluate on the river.

Lol, I wasn't referring to scare others with my bets, but myself.

I don't think the turn is as straightforward as everyone else. If we bet just $100 on the turn (less than 60% PSB), that leaves us with just 1/2 PSB on the river; we don't think we're kinda committing ourselves here? I certainly don't *hate* a bet/fold on the turn because board is drawy and Villains will usually play straightforward here (i.e. check/raising with better hands to protect against the draw).

However, if Villain is telling the truth, he just folded TPTK to our turn bet. If that's the case, what hands do we think we are getting value from with the turn bet? If he's folding anything but monsters to us, this is a good place to check back value hands and get a second street of value on the river, imo.

GcluelessNLnoobG

When you PFR 7bbs just 100bbs deep with AQo, then you're going to very often get yourself in a spot where you're stacking off with TPTK. Just FYI.

Anyway, this spot isn't *that* great just because of dry sidepot, nitty image and bone dry flop. We'll probably have to massage money in from this point on because we never have a bluff. I probably just make it like $70 on turn and $100 on river or something. It's nitty, but it probably gets max value from QJ, honestly.

I want to stick to $15+$3 for every limper... is that too big?

I don't have a problem with your raise sizing. I also don't have a problem with betting off 100bbs with AQ on a Q82r T board.

This is just kind of a food-for-thought exercise: putting aside the weird sidepot situation here, why are you wary about vbetting here? Is it because you don't think you have 50%+ against a range that includes both Qx and two-pairs/sets? If so, I would play with stove and ranges based on basic assumptions of villains' preflop calling ranges.

Is it because your image is so nitty that villains fold Qx faceup against you once you start making 3-digit bets? If so, it's probably a mistake to make this large of a preflop investment in a hand that is essentially a win-small-pots hand (as much as I shiver to use that phrase without any irony in reference to AQ on the button in a cash game post-2005).

The more important part of the thought exercise, though, is to go ahead and count how many combos of two pairs and sets villain can call with here and/or play with stove to see what percentage of hands they're actually getting to SD with against you. From there, you should seriously start to consider how you can take advantage of that number.

It's gonna involve learning how to recognize good spots to iso light preflop; it's gonna involve learning how to run multi-street bluffs; it's gonna take some balls; etc. But if (and it's still an if, because there still remains the possibility that you're just being MUBSY) villains truly aren't paying off two bets in a single raised pot with TPGK, then the problem isn't a lack of exploitability in your villain's; the problem is that exploiting them breaks beyond playing Phil Helmuth's Top 10 hands.

Lol this is live low stakes. We can't reasonably expect villains to play their hands perfectly everytime. If we are ahead we should be betting this hand for value vs this rec player and allowing him to make a mistake.

Villain's assertion that he was going to turn AQ into a bluff is so ridiculous. Villains aren't doing that because next to nobody folds overpairs in this spot with so little money behind. He should have no reason to suspect we would. Even if somehow he knew that we should bet/fold the turn he can't reasonably expect us to often play that perfectly. Lastly, if he is crazy enough to bluff shove top pair top kicker on this turn then he is probably crazy enough to bluff shove virtually his entire range making the turn a bet/call.

p.s. The vast majority of times players lie about their actual holdings.

please bet the turn