Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-24-2018, 03:13 PM   #1
Rebus
centurion
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 180
1/3 TPTK IP

1/3 400 cap.

V MP (450) - mid 20's asian. Strange LP style. Playing like 10/40 or something, but has limp called QQ from MP in a spot which was clearly gonna go very multiway. Generally passive post but is very comfortable putting chips in the middle, has no qualms calling big bets.

H CO (330) - mid 30s WG, ABC/TAG, been raising more than usual pre due to good starting hands in last hour, and raises have been big too due to frequent straddles and serial limpers. Have whiffed all flops so been check folding/cbet folding a lot, so have a bit of a spewy weak image.

OTTH

4 limps including V
H CO raise 30 AcQh
V calls 30

FLOP (60)
Qc10c10x
V bets 40
H call

Turn (140)
Qc10c10x5x
V bets 70
H call

River (280)
Qc10c10x5x6c
V check
Hero?

- I've seen him donk bet before but he got folds, so not sure what to make of it.
- I've been c-betting a reasonable amount, so I would kinda expect him to check a 10.
- As noted he does have the sick limp call with premiums move in his locker, so I can't rule out KK and AA but they have to be seriously discounted.
- At the time I thought he was blocker betting with one the many, many Qx hands he has here.
- He also has a lot of garbage FD combos possible, but does he donk donk with them?
Rebus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2018, 03:18 PM   #2
WereBeer
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,593
Re: 1/3 TPTK IP

I xb, passive villain gets frisky OTT but shuts down when the flush comes in. Seems like he has a lot of T in his range e.g. KTo/QTo/JTo/Txss. Guess he should have more Qx combos but also possibly weirdly played flushes.
WereBeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2018, 03:59 PM   #3
Javanewt
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: a farm in the country
Posts: 10,492
Re: 1/3 TPTK IP

I check it back. What worse is calling (maybe KQ or QJ?)? Do you think a T will fold?
Javanewt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2018, 04:06 PM   #4
Phil Me Up
adept
 
Phil Me Up's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 808
Re: 1/3 TPTK IP

WB & Java got this covered.

NH.
Phil Me Up is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2018, 04:24 PM   #5
Rebus
centurion
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 180
Re: 1/3 TPTK IP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt View Post
I check it back. What worse is calling (maybe KQ or QJ?)? Do you think a T will fold?
I've seen him make so pretty light/stationy calls before, so I think there's a good chance he calls KQ, QJ and maybe even Q rag.

Obvs I jammed, thinking was
- I have Ac so thats a bunch of FD combos he can't have, which further discounts weirdly played flushses
- He should have a little bit more Qx than 10x (LPs like Qrag suited but not so much 10rag suited). Plus I was discounting 10x a bit cause I thought he might c/r the flop with a 10 some of the time.
- I felt he'd have a hard time folding a Q.

Biggest problems with the above are that all the hands I lose to are calling for sure, but a bunch of the weak Q's might find a fold.
Rebus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2018, 04:57 PM   #6
gobbledygeek
Poet Laureate of LLSNL
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 32,941
Re: 1/3 TPTK IP

I might even go a little more preflop in order to get 10% of stacks in where we can feel more comfortable stacking off with TP. And if we take down 5.5bbs uncontested / unraked preflop, that's a fairly huge coup, imo.

One of the reasons I raise larger preflop is so that if I flop TP I can just move towards getting my stack in ASAP more comfortably. Even in this spot the SPR is 5 and board is somewhat drawy; you could argue that we should raise to commit on this flop, although paired boards are always a little weird in that too often we commit against trips.

I'm a little unclear on read. This guy is passive? Has he shown down any hands? Does he just bet his good hands and check/call mediocre ones / draws? Maybe a one and done bluffer / semi-bluffer, if that? We're probably identified as having air here a lot due to all our raise / cbet / folding. So against a more aggro player, I'm probably looking to commit ASAP. But against a more passive player, I could see just calling the flop and then giving serious consideration to folding the turn unless we think he thinks KQ is good or whatever.

As played, I probably check it back on the river. We're missing value against KQ/QJ but even those hands find a fold a decent amount of the time especially since the main draw game in.

GcluelessNLnoobG
gobbledygeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2018, 05:38 PM   #7
Joey913
old hand
 
Joey913's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pre-flop
Posts: 1,300
Re: 1/3 TPTK IP

From the previous hand you posted I know you're not scared to go forthin value but just don't think any exists here against this player. Need to check back on the river and get mad when V shows you KQ.
Joey913 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2018, 08:39 PM   #8
Rebus
centurion
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 180
Re: 1/3 TPTK IP

Thanks for the replies, seems pretty clear that this was a substantial step over the line separating good thin value from spew. Even typing it out it was pretty clear to me that I'd made some egregiously optimistic assumptions.

Villain snapped with 47cc fml.

GG, glad you mentioned raising to commit on the flop cause I think its a decent option. I considered it briefly but figured I'd just sort of end up all in vs his 10x, FDs, KQ and occasional OPs, whereas flatting lets him keep put me on AK/undepair and keep betting his Qx's.

Thanks again for replies, hopefully my posts can help give some insight into the minds of semi-thinking rec fish in your games
Rebus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2018, 09:51 PM   #9
Shai Hulud
old hand
 
Shai Hulud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tampa
Posts: 1,934
Re: 1/3 TPTK IP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebus View Post
1/3 400 cap.

V MP (450) - mid 20's asian. Strange LP style. Playing like 10/40 or something, but has limp called QQ from MP in a spot which was clearly gonna go very multiway. Generally passive post but is very comfortable putting chips in the middle, has no qualms calling big bets.

H CO (330) - mid 30s WG, ABC/TAG, been raising more than usual pre due to good starting hands in last hour, and raises have been big too due to frequent straddles and serial limpers. Have whiffed all flops so been check folding/cbet folding a lot, so have a bit of a spewy weak image.

OTTH

4 limps including V
H CO raise 30 AcQh
V calls 30

FLOP (60)
Qc10c10x
V bets 40
H call

Turn (140)
Qc10c10x5x
V bets 70
H call

River (280)
Qc10c10x5x6c
V check
Hero?

- I've seen him donk bet before but he got folds, so not sure what to make of it.
- I've been c-betting a reasonable amount, so I would kinda expect him to check a 10.
- As noted he does have the sick limp call with premiums move in his locker, so I can't rule out KK and AA but they have to be seriously discounted.
- At the time I thought he was blocker betting with one the many, many Qx hands he has here.
- He also has a lot of garbage FD combos possible, but does he donk donk with them?
Donking a T is really unusual here. I expect him to have a worse Q or a FD like 90% of the time. So I'm raising the flop like 2.25x.

AP I'm raising turn.

AP I'm checking back river since FDs are a large part of standard donk bet lines. At this point we might not be able to get value from a hand like QJ either so I just see no reason to bet.
Shai Hulud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2018, 10:03 PM   #10
johnnyBuz
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
johnnyBuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Beast Coast
Posts: 7,035
Re: 1/3 TPTK IP

If river didn’t complete the flush then a shove is good. I just x it back there.
johnnyBuz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2018, 12:55 AM   #11
m0mmy
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 324
Re: 1/3 TPTK IP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebus View Post
1/3 400 cap.

V MP (450) - mid 20's asian. Strange LP style. Playing like 10/40 or something, but has limp called QQ from MP in a spot which was clearly gonna go very multiway. Generally passive post but is very comfortable putting chips in the middle, has no qualms calling big bets.

H CO (330) - mid 30s WG, ABC/TAG, been raising more than usual pre due to good starting hands in last hour, and raises have been big too due to frequent straddles and serial limpers. Have whiffed all flops so been check folding/cbet folding a lot, so have a bit of a spewy weak image.

OTTH

4 limps including V
H CO raise 30 AcQh
V calls 30

FLOP (60)
Qc10c10x
V bets 40
H call

Turn (140)
Qc10c10x5x
V bets 70
H call

River (280)
Qc10c10x5x6c
V check
Hero?

- I've seen him donk bet before but he got folds, so not sure what to make of it.
- I've been c-betting a reasonable amount, so I would kinda expect him to check a 10.
- As noted he does have the sick limp call with premiums move in his locker, so I can't rule out KK and AA but they have to be seriously discounted.
- At the time I thought he was blocker betting with one the many, many Qx hands he has here.
- He also has a lot of garbage FD combos possible, but does he donk donk with them?
Not only do you block a lot of flush and straight draws but you also block some medium strength hands like worse queens A5/A6.Given how passive V is its less likely hes semi bluffing with a draw so on the flop im assuming hes either betting a strong hand or a medium strength hand you dont block like 22-jj,KK Tx. maybe a combo draw like KJs,K9s,J9s,J8s. If you think hes willing to try to bluff catch the river with an underpair go for bet fold if not just check behind. I would lean more towards checking.

Sent from my Z851M using Tapatalk
m0mmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2018, 01:19 AM   #12
branch0095
adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 901
Re: 1/3 TPTK IP

Grunch

I'd just check back river. We have decent showdown value, and I think it's very hard to get called by worse. I guess you could size way down and target worse Qx, but I think that's a very small portion of his range. His line is very strange to me, but I think the majority of his range is 10x, FDs, SDs. The straight draws bricked and won't call a bet, and the rest of his holdings have you beat. I'd be happy to table my hand here.
branch0095 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2018, 11:29 AM   #13
gobbledygeek
Poet Laureate of LLSNL
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 32,941
Re: 1/3 TPTK IP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebus View Post
GG, glad you mentioned raising to commit on the flop cause I think its a decent option. I considered it briefly but figured I'd just sort of end up all in vs his 10x, FDs, KQ and occasional OPs, whereas flatting lets him keep put me on AK/undepair and keep betting his Qx's.
For me raising the flop all comes down to how committed we feel. The smaller the SPR and the more committed we feel, the more we should be raising; the larger the SPR and the less committed we feel, the more we should be flatting.

GimoG
gobbledygeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2018, 02:26 PM   #14
shorn7
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,497
Re: 1/3 TPTK IP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebus View Post
Thanks for the replies, seems pretty clear that this was a substantial step over the line separating good thin value from spew. Even typing it out it was pretty clear to me that I'd made some egregiously optimistic assumptions.

Villain snapped with 47cc fml.

GG, glad you mentioned raising to commit on the flop cause I think its a decent option. I considered it briefly but figured I'd just sort of end up all in vs his 10x, FDs, KQ and occasional OPs, whereas flatting lets him keep put me on AK/undepair and keep betting his Qx's.

Thanks again for replies, hopefully my posts can help give some insight into the minds of semi-thinking rec fish in your games
Yeah I am all for squeezing as much thin value as I can overall, but the problem is you aren't deep enough to make any of his value range fold (so all T's, all flushes). Your shove gives him $470/$190 so like 2.5-1. Unless the guy is a nit, he isn't even folding hands as weak as T7 etc.

As GG pointed out, I think I raise this flop a good % of the time as well when IP. Just helps define a bit and lets you take control. Sure, you may get stacked occasionally by his Tx, but he has way more FD and Qx in his range so I think it worth the risk.
shorn7 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive