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1/3 toptop facing river check raise 1/3 toptop facing river check raise

03-16-2019 , 02:34 PM
1/3 hero just sat down. Opened a few hands took a couple down with showdown. Main villain is unkown young white guy in a hoodie. Only hand hero has seen is villain opening in MP then checking down a dry flop heads up w Q10ss and winning.

500 effective hero covers

Folds to hero in cutoff who opens AKss 15. Main villain calls in BB.

(30) Flop: K84hhc

Hero bets 15 villain calls.

(60) Turn: 2s Villain checks, hero bets 40. Villain calls.

(160) River: 6c Villain checks. Hero bets 90. Main villain thinks for about 15 sec then raises all in. 390 more for hero to call. Hero?

I think I am at the top of my range here which maybe mandates a call however villain is unknown and hero’s only read is that main villain seems to be maybe hollywooding that he is distressed. However the initial raise was made with assertiveness. Only better hands I can envision having here are AA/KK/K8s/68s
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-16-2019 , 08:54 PM
Fold without reads
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-16-2019 , 08:59 PM
Well, what are you betting otf? value and bluffs.
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-16-2019 , 09:04 PM
Youve shown nothing but strength throughout the hand. Would seem a pretty insane time for villain to bluff considering you could be holding 2 pair or a set yourself.

Also you forgot about two hands that could take a completely passive line up to the river:

75hh (flush + straight draw that completes a straight on the river)
64hh (flush + pair that completes 2 two pair on the river)
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-16-2019 , 09:31 PM
Looks good. Now fold.

If this guy shows you some stupid bluff, then you'll be stacking him later.

You also have 88, 44, and maybe K4s in your range.
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-16-2019 , 09:42 PM
You are not at the top of your range, not even close. You should have straights here as well as some two pairs and ofc all sets.
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-16-2019 , 09:43 PM
When you bet on the river what worse hands did you think you would get a call from?
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-16-2019 , 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BackDoorFlush
Looks good. Now fold.

If this guy shows you some stupid bluff, then you'll be stacking him later.

You also have 88, 44, and maybe K4s in your range.
Not opening 44 or K4s at these games but def have 88. Are you folding AA here too?
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-16-2019 , 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adios
When you bet on the river what worse hands did you think you would get a call from?
In these games? KQ, KJ, K10, K9, sometimes QQ (yes ppl are this passive)

More importantly since ppl do not bluff enough on this river taking this hnd for 3 street establishes to the table that I am willing to go 3 streets for thin value w one pair. This allows ke to triple barrel bluff more effectively.

This is one of the rare rare times Ive faced a river raise in this
casino at these stakes taking this line

Last edited by Prince_of_Whales; 03-16-2019 at 11:00 PM. Reason: Bluffs
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-16-2019 , 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince_of_Whales
In these games? KQ, KJ, K10, K9, sometimes QQ (yes ppl are this passive)



More importantly since ppl do not bluff enough on this river taking this hnd for 3 street establishes to the table that I am willing to go 3 streets for thin value w one pair. This is one of the rare rare times Ive ever faced a river raise in this casino at these stakes.
That's awesome. Now fold to his crazy made hand. He's never showing you a bluff here IMO.

Sent from my P00C using Tapatalk
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-16-2019 , 11:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by floppedquadjokers
Youve shown nothing but strength throughout the hand. Would seem a pretty insane time for villain to bluff considering you could be holding 2 pair or a set yourself.

Also you forgot about two hands that could take a completely passive line up to the river:

75hh (flush + straight draw that completes a straight on the river)
64hh (flush + pair that completes 2 two pair on the river)
I was referring to my range not his. I totally agree w you though. I expected him to have 64hh, 75hh sonetimes but Im not sure how often he checks these hands on the river given that most ppl will not take an overpaie for 3 streets here
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-17-2019 , 01:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince_of_Whales
Not opening 44 or K4s at these games but def have 88. Are you folding AA here too?
why are you not opening 44 from the co?
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-17-2019 , 01:19 AM
Easy fold. The big river CR bluff is rare in any poker game and esp in 1/3NL, generally you would only see maniacs do that. Thats a good baseline assumption at least. I dont mind betting 3 streets here on this relatively safe board, maybe flop is on the small side and river on the big, but as soon as you get raised here pretty easy to get away.
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-17-2019 , 01:56 AM
Fold face up and tell him you'll give him $20 if he can show you a worse hand.

It's 1-3, and you have no specific reads, fold one pair.
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-17-2019 , 07:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince_of_Whales
Are you folding AA here too?
Yes.

AK is actually a better hand to call with than AA because we are blocking some of his two pair hands (this doesn't really apply here, but it would in a tough 5/T+ game).
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-17-2019 , 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BackDoorFlush
Yes.

AK is actually a better hand to call with than AA because we are blocking some of his two pair hands (this doesn't really apply here, but it would in a tough 5/T+ game).
Good point.
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-17-2019 , 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bailashtoreth
why are you not opening 44 from the co?
At a new table w no reads my default is to open 55+ from LP, 77+ from mid, and 99+ from EP.

I make adjust as the table dynamic is established or if I have hx w the players.

My rationale is that too often the pot will go 4 ways to a 4x open from the CO and/or Ill have to have more bluffs early on since small PP dont flop well.

At higher stakes I open 44+ from every position.
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-17-2019 , 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince_of_Whales
In these games? KQ, KJ, K10, K9, sometimes QQ (yes ppl are this passive)

More importantly since ppl do not bluff enough on this river taking this hnd for 3 street establishes to the table that I am willing to go 3 streets for thin value w one pair. This allows ke to triple barrel bluff more effectively.

This is one of the rare rare times Ive faced a river raise in this
casino at these stakes taking this line
Welp that makes it an easy lay down on the river then.
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-17-2019 , 08:08 AM
Result:

I go deep into the tank. My initial reaction was too snap fold to this type of aggression at 1/3 to an unknown. But I wanted to make sure I wasn’t overfolding some of my stronger hands in this configuration. Hearts obviously bricked out and I unblock hearts making this what I believe is probably the best 1 pair hand to call w. Still, how often does an unknown player run a 160 BB bluff on the river to an unknwon? Not often enough in my opinion so I fold.

Villain sighs in relief and flips over AQhh.

In the moment I was impressed and immediately gave villain credit for being a solid a player. However, it would become apparent that this hand was a merely an idiosyncratic bout of aggression.

I dont think his play w his specific holding works offen enough against the field as most ppl arent folding top top when hearts brick out. I also think he should be 3! AQhh in a BB vs CO configuration.

Villain turned out to be loose passive and limp called most of his range. In a future hand he opened to 5x in MP and I 3bet to 65 w JJ thinking hes solid and could be opening wide. He flats and I bet 3/4 pot on a 287r, he calls, 4 turn, i bet 1/2 pot and he open folds QQ. Of course I showed him the JJ. I stacked him later on an inconsequential hand.

Not sure what caused villain to spazz but I think the fold is correct w/ out hx.
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-17-2019 , 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr
You are not at the top of your range, not even close. You should have straights here as well as some two pairs and ofc all sets.
Good point but I dont think I have straights here. Im not double barreling a gutshot to an unknown who is not sitting deep I dont think.
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-17-2019 , 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince_of_Whales
Good point but I dont think I have straights here. Im not double barreling a gutshot to an unknown who is not sitting deep I dont think.
75s is a pretty standard turn barrel here. his range for calling flop will be wide on this board and most of it cant take heat on a blank.

you don't open 75s/22-44 here so i guess it doesnt matter
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-17-2019 , 11:05 PM
Nice hand.
1/3 toptop facing river check raise Quote
03-18-2019 , 11:40 AM
I love our preflop result; HU in position with initiative with a big playable SPR. I've realized lately how few times I'm actually in this spot.

SPR is a nice big 16 and we've flopped TPTK on a somewhat drawy board. Against straightfoward ABC players who never get out-of-line, I'd probably lean to three smallish bet/folds, so if that's our guy then I'm fine with our line and now fold to the river raise. If our opponent can get a little more out-of-line or start bluffing when we show weakness, I'd lean to a check somewhere (either on the flop or the turn) to setup a trivial river bluffcatcher / second value bet that is much more likelier to get paid off.

ETA: While I'm fine with how you played it, in my opinion there are not nearly as many players poor enough to pay off 4 straight bets with worse as there once were, and there are more players in the mix that are capable of making moves like this that there once were. So, with that in mind, going for 2 streets of value by checking an early street and ensuring we get to showdown to lay claim to the pot for a reasonable price is a good line and shouldn't be underestimated.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Last edited by gobbledygeek; 03-18-2019 at 11:47 AM.
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