Hero (BTN) is young asian kid in his 20s sitting on ~1500 stack. Viewed as TAG winning player, rarely out of line. V1 (SB) has about ~640, has been sitting down for a couple hours, middle aged 40s asian male recreational player. V2 (HJ) has ~1200, has been at table for about an hour, looks like an OMC. Came from broken table. Both have been playing pretty ABC... limp suited connectors, raises pairs and broadways.

V1(~640) SB V2(~1200) HJ

2 limps, Hero raises to 18 with A10 on the button

V1 calls, 2 limpers call, 4 ways to the flop

Flop ($75) Q92

Checks around

Turn J

Checks to HJ who bets $55

Hero raises to $155, SB tanks for about 1 minute and calls (doesn't seem too comfortable with his hand), HJ folds.

River ($440) 7

SB checks. I have the nut blocker. Is it time to put him all in for ~$465?

Thoughts on all streets? Thanks in advance

1. Are you really checking back nut flush draw sometimes on the flop?
2. Are you really raising the nut flush on the turn rather than just flatting?

I'm not knocking either of those lines. They both seem reasonable to me, but you just gotta be honest with yourself about whether or not (or how often) you really have a hand in this spot.
I personally like a flat on the turn, mostly because it's so disastrous if we get shoved on ott with so much equity and its gross to fold that all away. I'd rather raise with the naked Ac and no straight draw, because we can comfortably raise-fold it with probly like 15% equity or something on average.

You rep basically nothing for the turn raise, you're claiming to have a flush but it's pretty unlikely you didn't bet flop with a draw. Maybe you can make your opponents fold anyway, idk.

OTR, SB's hand looks like Kc plus something else, like maybe he has a pair too. It seems unlikely he has a straight or flush given he didn't lead turn, although he could have either straight flush combo. Jam and hope for the best.

SB waking up with a hand here and flatting is setting my alarm bells off. He's a rec player, so he might not fold two pair + if the river bricks.

In game I probably shove, but I think it's a leak. I've seen rec fish do the dumbest most illogical slow plays with their big hands. Plus, they have no fold button, even though they played the hand passively, as if they were scared. Like, they won't bet $0 with their hand, yet they are willing to call a $600 bet if someone else bets.

Perfect hand to do this with. He probably has a lot of two pairs though and it might be hand to get that to fold.

Fair assessment, but I think H line is similar to what I would do in this spot because OTF he is blocking a lot of V cbet bluff/calling range so I much prefer a check because you're only getting called by better. When the turn comes in I am raising for the same reasons you mentioned, we have ton of equity here and if you think about it what hands can v have that he's 3b shoving a turn with that he isn't betting flop with? especially considering this is a SRP. Let me know if my thought process is making sense.

We can have low flush combos that decided to check flop because we have no FE 4 ways on Q92. We also can find a raise with KT with a club, though not sure how many offsuit KT we are raising pre, or if V's are even thinking enough for it to matter.

I think the turn bluff is going to work pretty often, we have a good price and we have a lot of outs against hands that are likely to call such as two pair, and we move opponents off it on river pretty often.

Gotta shove river, SB almost never has a flush here and can be moved off as strong as 3 of a kind imo. If we get called by a straight then say nh.

This ultimately comes down to whether or not you think this villain has a fold button. In my experience, rec players once tying themselves to a hand do not. I know this from years of experience trying to blow them off their made hands unsuccessfully. So, yes, you have the nut blocker but this villain a lot more often than not doesn’t care (or even see it) and neither should you.

It’s a little like trying to open a locked door by slamming your head against it over and over and over...

... and over.

Door still shut, but now you have a head ache.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I vote fold, I don't see him folding very many hands after he cold calls a raise on the turn, and you're not representing too many hands yourself with this line, maybe like 87cc or A9cc- and also something like what you have, AcKx or AcTx.

If preflop ain't gonna get folds, I'm not convinced it plays better as a raise than an overlimp, but's that just what I've been considering lately. At least stacks are deep where we won't get into uncomfortable commitment spots, so I definitely don't hate the raise if we think we are getting some folds.

I'm also not cbetting 4ways.

I'd don't like our turn play. We really don't tell much of a story (we didn't cbet our flush draw or QQ?) and are basically repping biggish but definitely non-nuttish hands (perhaps JJ / KT). HJ isn't getting out-of-line so even though he's betting when the postflop action has been checked to him both times I'm still giving him some credit here for a potentially big hand here (noting he could have easily been going for flop check/raise with a good hand). If we get reraised we hate life. I actually think I would just fold; we have low IO on the four-to-a-flush (noting we don't even have the nut draw) and could have poor RIO on our straight outs.

I'm guessing SB coldcalling and HJ folding what perhaps a bit unexpected. Story-wise, are we ever going to get SB to fold his straight when we didn't bet the flop with our flush draw? For this much $$$, perhaps. But if he can hand read at all, it's dicier.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I love checking back the NFD on the flop as the PFR. They never believe you've checked it back & always pay you off when the flush comes in. For that reason fold.

I would check a decent amount of club draws back otf, A2cc-A5cc/a good amount of weak FD we don't want to get raised and don't want to play for stacks/draw for expensive price.

I would also play some flushes like this ott and jam otr, but I would not play a bluff like this. Most people don't assign FDs in your check-back range and won't believe you. Just give up.

Ott i would not raise either, people won't give you credit for a flush and your hand looks like exactly what it is. It is though a perfect spot to play the NF this way and get paid off by sticky two pair, sets, and even one pair hand + club blocker lol

Well he might be checking 100% to us on the flop since we raised preflop. So hes not capped at all, and can have straights and flushes. I feel like he can have a lot of good hands in this spot and we have less good hands then him, so I'd really try to seldomly bluff raise this turn, but once in a while is fine

No reason to fold. Checking and winning w ace high sometimes is ok though.

A low flush combo that we raised with preflop after two limpers? It's not outside the bounds of reason but doesn't seem likely.

1. Yes, sometimes
2. Yes, when we are this deep, why not build a pot?

I guess I fell into FPS by raising turn? I thought it was a good spot, given my image and playing a rec/OMC. But let's say I call the $55 to realize my equity and hit a straight or flush. There's going to be a 4 liner to a straight and 4 to a flush. If I bet that kind of river, it's pretty unlikely I get called by 2 pair/set?