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1/3 tight game full house over full house 1/3 tight game full house over full house

10-30-2019 , 03:34 AM
Hero on UTG (400€) opens Ah10c 12€ , called by UTG+1
Basically this table was tight, and I played with my opponent (reg) before , he used to open / call ~12-20÷ depends on table. Defenetely bluff capable, however was running extremely good in last 2 hours by winning AA over KK etc.

FLOP : As Ad Jd
I bet 15€, he raise to 35€, I call

Turn : Th
I check, he bet 30€, at this moment I thought he may have
AK, AQ, all weaker As , JJ, flush draws as a semi bluff. I KQ will probably do a pot bet.
I made a mini raise to 60€, he tanks about 30sec and made 110€, so now I understand I pretty much against his top range, however (probably based on amount of the raise I decided to call)

River 2c
I bet 60€ kind of block bet, he tanks about 1min and jam, I did not have much money at that time behind, I beat in my understanding TT( but this hand will not raise on the flop), JJ much more combos than only 3 combos of AJ I loose

However based on very tight table image , what is optimal line should be ?

Last edited by venice10; 10-30-2019 at 05:05 AM. Reason: Removed results
1/3 tight game full house over full house Quote
10-30-2019 , 05:14 AM
Hi, welcome to the forum. I've removed the results from your post since we have found that it biases the answers.
1/3 tight game full house over full house Quote
10-30-2019 , 06:50 AM
I put Villain in the range of JJ, ATs+, KQs, AJo.

Given the turn, your equity is around 77% vs 23% of his range.

Also, your SPR in the river is around 1,31 which basically means you are comitted.

AP, I'd call the jam but not in a comfortable way. Hoping to see a KQ bluff, a AQ, a AK.
1/3 tight game full house over full house Quote
10-30-2019 , 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callhero
Hero on UTG (400€) opens Ah10c 12€ , called by UTG+1

Basically this table was tight, and I played with my opponent (reg) before , he used to open / call ~12-20÷ depends on table. Defenetely bluff capable, however was running extremely good in last 2 hours by winning AA over KK etc.



FLOP : As Ad Jd

I bet 15€, he raise to 35€, I call



Turn : Th

I check, he bet 30€, at this moment I thought he may have

AK, AQ, all weaker As , JJ, flush draws as a semi bluff. I KQ will probably do a pot bet.

I made a mini raise to 60€, he tanks about 30sec and made 110€, so now I understand I pretty much against his top range, however (probably based on amount of the raise I decided to call)



River 2c

I bet 60€ kind of block bet, he tanks about 1min and jam, I did not have much money at that time behind, I beat in my understanding TT( but this hand will not raise on the flop), JJ much more combos than only 3 combos of AJ I loose



However based on very tight table image , what is optimal line should be ?

at 5/5 on another loose table I just check-push on the turn.



I call he showed AJ , unfortunately that casino have no Jack pot


1st - please dont include results (title and post), it affects the discussion.

2nd - please include potsize each street.

Edit.: sorry, started to reply like 4h ago, went to work and just finished the post.

OTTH

ATo seens a bit too loose to open from UTG an even UTG+1. On a tight game with more than 100bb I would rather be opening more SCs if willing to open wider due to fold equity.

By openig ATo on a tight table you will have this kinda of hands (AJ and JJ) flatting and don’t knowing how to play postflop can make you lose tons of money.

Flop (28€) If I have opened ATo (think I’m never doing that) I would X.
V have 77-TT and I want to keep it on his range that could be folding vs our CBet.
We are not afraid of KQ. We want to keep it on his range as well for implied odds when we hit the T.
Alot of reasons for Xing. We could be dominated blablabla

AP I’m calling the raise.

Turn (98€). I’m X/Raising 120€.
If he 3Bets I could think about a fold vs a tight player. Dont see bluffs on that line, so I DO fold. Ranges are so capped here.
AP I’m calling his raise.

River (318€). We bet for value vs KQ, AQ. 100€.
I could sometimes X too and use my hand as a bluffcatcher. Things are too weirdo already.
Never puting myself on this position, tho.
1/3 tight game full house over full house Quote
10-30-2019 , 08:13 AM
Hey bud, welcome to the forum. First of all great hand. Second there's a place called BBV I think you'll enjoy it.
1/3 tight game full house over full house Quote
10-30-2019 , 09:42 AM
Others might disagree with me, but I feel you can just fold ATo until you get to the LJ or HJ position and save $. That hand is just so hard to play that you probably won't make money unless your opponents are really bad post flop.

As played, you are committed with the second nuts when his range contains more hands than just AJ. A lot of players don't understand relative hand strength. JJ is also there and almost always plays like this, and it is the same # of combos as AJ (3). AK or AQ could also be there some amount of the time, believing they're good. So there's no way you're folding, especially if you're getting good odds.
1/3 tight game full house over full house Quote
10-30-2019 , 10:40 AM
Fold pre, not close.

AP flop is fine.

Turn is a jam. He can still have AK, AQ, KQdd and JJ. Some ppl will even still have just Ax here. Considering folding the second nut boat when we loose to 3 combos is bonkers. We should be trying to get max value from the rest of his range, not looking for monsters under the bed.

AP river is whatever. You can ck/jam as JJ and KQ will probably still bet but being oop with such a strong value hand is tricky. That is why it's better to just gii ott. I guess your bet can still get value from Ax but it really doesn't accomplish much as you can't b/f.

OP I get you ran into it here and you fell like you could have avoided it, but the only way that happens is if you fold pre. I snap fold AJo utg+1 at 9 handed tables.

I play in the largest room in my state with the most diverse player pool available and there is exactly one player I would even consider folding to at any point in this hand.
1/3 tight game full house over full house Quote
10-30-2019 , 11:28 AM
I fold ATo in EP. If we must play it here, I think it actually plays better as open limp (cuz at tightish tables our raise is mostly limiting ourselves to being up against dominating Ax hands whereas a limp will allow us to be up against dominated ones).

If he's capable of bluffing, I probably go into check/call mode on the flop. Facing a raise puts us in an awkward spot where the pot starts getting way too big with us showing far too tight a range by continuing (versus very weakly check/calling and allowing him to attempt us to get us off our obvious KK/QQ). I think we're likely forced to call the raise but we're kinda hoping he now gives up and if he continues betting we might have to think of exitting at some point.

I think I just check/call the turn. I'm fine with giving him rope if he wants to continue bluffing. If he has half a clue, AQ should realize they beat almost nothing and even AK might consider some folds. KQ we're fine playing passively and getting another bet out of (and even they might not pay off more bets on this board). Meanwhile we don't cooler ourselves against AJ, although obviously we miss value against the coolered JJ. Getting reraised really sucks; even JJ can see the bigger fullhouses which are clearly possible.

I don't think the river blocking bet has any use given this action so far. In the end, it kinda looks coolerish, but we have a very tight table image and our turn check/raise (which shows *mega* strength) just got reraised. We're behind.

Gweovervaluedonhandoneverystreet,imoG
1/3 tight game full house over full house Quote
10-30-2019 , 01:26 PM
About opening that was 8 players table, a bit weird but that casino plays only 8max or less
I re-evaluated my actions, I think opening not a mistake, that on a border..I may also limp sometimes and even play limp re-raise
Probably best line is check raise big on turn and fold on 3-bet or jam on 3-bet
Actually interesting if solvers can suggest anything different.
1/3 tight game full house over full house Quote
10-30-2019 , 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissygolf
Hey bud, welcome to the forum. First of all great hand. Second there's a place called BBV I think you'll enjoy it.
Thanks for the warm welcome and discussion, what is the BBV ?)
1/3 tight game full house over full house Quote
10-30-2019 , 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callhero
About opening that was 8 players table, a bit weird but that casino plays only 8max or less
I re-evaluated my actions, I think opening not a mistake, that on a border..I may also limp sometimes and even play limp re-raise
Probably best line is check raise big on turn and fold on 3-bet or jam on 3-bet
Actually interesting if solvers can suggest anything different.


Even on 8max it isn’t border. It could be border for an LJ position and an openraise from HJ.
It’s better to open raise more suited connectors (as I said before) than ATo if you want to widen your ranges.

Now... it works pretty well as open limp and also as OL/3Bet. If you have a limping range, ATo should be there. I don’t for many reasons and don’t recommend that, but... what is maybe open limping definitely is not open raising.

Agreed to flop and turn re-evaluation.

The big thing about poker is that many times we try to justify some line, try to find the mistake on future streets (not finding it) or just don’t understand how could we be loosing money if we have made a good call or good valuebet on the river...
But the real mistake have been made before... Usually PREFLOP or OTF.

That’s why the preflop game and the flop strategy is so important... to avoid -EV decisions on future streets.

Last edited by vini.barbosa; 10-30-2019 at 03:08 PM.
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