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1/3 - Though River spot 1/3 - Though River spot

11-04-2018 , 11:59 PM
Playing 1/3 in a local casino ~400 eff

Hero utg Looks down at K K raise to 15 (standard raise)
Utg and BB call
[45] Flop 266 I bet 15 both call
[90] Turn 3 I bet 25 utg+1 fold BB raise to 65 I call
[220] River 8 I check OOP (not even sure If villian saw) villian bets 200. Me...?

Villian is a 25-30 year old asain guy involved in a lot of pots but not spewy or anything. Have seen him bet this big 1-2 times before didnt see hands though.
1/3 - Though River spot Quote
11-05-2018 , 12:20 AM
Against most 1/3 players, just fold the turn. The straight got there and they can easily have a number of 6x and 22/33.

As played turn, just fold river.

If you want to call down with some AA/KK, do it with the ones that don't have a heart.
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11-05-2018 , 03:51 AM
Bet bigger, you don’t have to bomb it on the flop but at least go $20-25, you will still get floated by all sorts of garbage. Turn is marginal. Definitely folding river against population and described villain.
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11-05-2018 , 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImAllInNow
Against most 1/3 players, just fold the turn. The straight got there and they can easily have a number of 6x and 22/33.

As played turn, just fold river.

If you want to call down with some AA/KK, do it with the ones that don't have a heart.
All of this.
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11-05-2018 , 10:50 AM
I just noticed your bet sizes. You should be betting more on the flop and turn. Something on the order of $25 on the flop and then $80 or so on the turn.

As played on the flop, the turn should be somewhere around $60-$70. You're giving flush draws too good of odds to call vs. your hand.
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11-05-2018 , 11:32 AM
I agree, fold to the turn raise. As played fold river.

This low-ball board favours a BB overcalling range that's going to contain a lot of SC and low pairs. However, because you have position you can happily bet turn bigger to charge any draws and, if you don't get raised, you can check back the river. This way you play well against his whole range:

- if he has 6X or a boat and thinks you're betting all three streets he may check the river to you and your check back saves you some money.

- if he has a draw or a weak pair he's not going to call a third bet anyway so you lose nothing checking back the river.

Only downside is you miss value from any decent overpairs villain checks to you on the river. However, some of these will have 3bet preflop (QQ and maybe JJ) so you're only missing out against a small number (12ish) of combos that can call a third barrel and lose to you.
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11-05-2018 , 01:11 PM
I mostly do something different preflop but we managed to get this 3ways and it looks like in position to boot, so good result (although I'm not sure if this is what we predicted).

I probably bet a little bigger on the flop. I also don't think checking back and underrepping is horrible (and going for 2 streets later / bluffcatching).

We've really undersized our bet again on the turn. If this is too invoke, ok, fine, I guess, although it can also get us into gross situations (like it has). I would mostly bet a reasonable bet (say 1/2 PSB that is less likely to get played back at and I can make a bet/fold). Never really in love with any line that involves bet/calling when we mostly have played our hand like a face up overpair.

If our plan was to bet small to induce, then it's worked well and we should call the river since no draws got there. But I mostly don't get myself into the bet/call spots, so I'd be leaning to a fold (especially since we have exactly what it looks like we have).

GcluelessNLnoobG
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11-06-2018 , 05:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
we managed to get this 3ways and it looks like in position to boot, so good result
Looks like we are OOP, we are leading each street.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
when we mostly have played our hand like a face up overpair.
Is it the flat call of the raise on the turn that makes you say that? Otherwise all we have done is raise pre, then massively underbet the flop and turn. Just curious, i mean in Villains shoes i dont view hero as having a large overpair here with line through the turn.

The turn bet is so small that we are not sure now if the raise was induced due to apparent weakness, which makes me want to call this river. Readless on villain and away from the table it looks like a fold. Im not folding it 100% of the time live though, especially the way the hand was played.
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11-06-2018 , 12:07 PM
^^^^

Admittedly the flop/turn bets are small, but we raised preflop in EP, bet the flop multiway, bet the turn multiway, and then called a check/raise. A huge part of our range is exactly what we have.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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11-06-2018 , 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingFish
Looks like we are OOP, we are leading each street.
Hero is UTG and opens preflop. UTG+1 calls and BB overcalls. So hero is piggy in the middle on flop but UTG+1 folds to hero's turn bet and then Hero is in position heads-up vs BB.

It's confusing because hero checks out of turn on the river but typoed it as "OOP".
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11-07-2018 , 11:03 PM
I think I put myself in a uncessary hard spot on the turn/river by betting the flop and turn small (I would have liked to bet bigger specially on the turn). During the hand I thought there was a small possiblility (very small) that villian had a hand like 10's or Jacks and didn't want to raise preflop and thought he was good bc the small flop / turn sizing (would this ever be the case?).
I felt super a bit underrepped on the turn and thought I had to call here, since the river is a complete brick I ended up calling ( I thought villian would raise all 6's on the flop and thought 33s + 45 had to few combo's to make a fold good). So i ended up calling villian tabled 67ss and owned me pretty hard.
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11-07-2018 , 11:12 PM
Betting the flop small isn't awful here as the board is dryish. This is a pretty good flop for KK and I want to extract value from a wide range. Once you get called on the flop though, you have to size up a bit on the turn, because his range is not as wide anymore. I'd go $65 or so here. At this point I'd likely be folding to any raise.

As played, I don't think calling the turn raise is that bad. Your hand definitely still has showdown value. One thing that's weird about small boards in these games is villains tend to way overplay PP's that become surprise overpairs. I don't know why, but it's a thing. Your small sizing could've easily induced a spazz bluff or emboldened a hand like 77/88 to think it can raise for value. You're getting a good price on a call here too.

I'm definitely folding to the big bet on the river. As a general rule don't assume they can bluff big until you've seen them do it.
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