1/3 game

Hero: (covers) a regular known by V1 but not V2. Image to V1 is LAG, capable of big moves.

V1: ($1k) Semi regular young black guy. Doubt he is a winner in the game, but is very aggressive and can put you in tough situations.

V2: ($550) Unknown young Asian guy. Appears to be pretty fishy thus far. Most notable hand thus far he called a $35 preflop raise from SB with K9o. KQx flop checks through and then he values bets on turn and river and gets calls from a Q.

OTTH:
V1 opens for $15 pre from HJ. V2 raises to $30 from button. Fold to H in BB who calls with Ks10d.

Flop: 10h6h5d ($90)

H and V1 check, V2 bets $60, H raises to $160. V1 folds and V2 calls.

Turn:6d ($410)
H checks, V checks

River: 3d ($410)
H checks, V shoves for $360

What is V's range here? Does he have any value hands?

Why are you calling a 3bet (or any raise) from out of position with an easily dominated hand against a tough, aggressive player and an unknown? Seriously hard to get past pre flop. You might be the fishy player.

Easy fold on river as played -- range could be wide and you might be ahead, but you shouldn't be here and you shouldn't be willing to lose ~100bb with top pair / bad kicker against a relative unknown.

If you are going to play this and raise on the flop and are considering calling the river, why did you check turn?

Before all the Fold Pre comments come in, I'll explain thought process.

Pre: I don't think his min raise pre is particularly strong. I think he almost never does this with a top hand, and it is more likely a small pair, suited Broadway, suited connectors, etc. I realize that K10o is not premium but I want to get in pots with V2 and we are pretty deep. I think I can outplay him a sizable percent of the time.

Flop: I don't think I can really call here because I don't want to let V1 into the pot with an overcall. He can be aggressive and I want to ISO here, so I raise. I also think that I learn a lot about V2's hand when I raise and I can barrel him off a hand on turn or river.

Turn: I check because I think the 6 is a terrible barrel card. It decreases the chance of me having a set and I think I get called by overpair a a lot on this turn.

River: I check because I think I may have the best hand but don't see much worse calling us. Maybe only J10s exclusively.

My hand is irrelevant on river, all that matters is his range. Is his range really wide here? What hands is he shoving for value? Which as bluffs?

I can see QQ/JJ here for value.

I can't really figure out the min raise pre-flop on the BTN, maybe to price out calls from the blind but not to scare off the initial raiser. He checks the turn for pot control and then feels comfortable to commit on the river after you check to him.

I think you have to give up after the flop raise. If hes ballsy enough to shove this river with missed FD then you have to give it to him I think.

No. Just ****ing no to all of this. Just fold pre.

Trust me, you don't want to get involved with aggressive players with opaque ranges OOP deep with KTo for a price of 9bbs. You are not Houdini. "Outplaying" players involves making good call/fold/raise/lead decisions, and making this call works really heavily against that; it also means showing up with ranges that are advantageous against villain's strategy/expectations, and having a King and a Ten with no suit backup definitely doesn't achieve that.

You've also failed to remember that V1 exists, and his range is doing extremely well against the hand you hold, and he's never going away for this price, and the action is reopened to him, and you have nut worst relative and absolute position against him.

So I've played against V1 a bunch. His opening range here is super light and his three bet is very tight. So I think I'm ok flatting pre. Obviously I fold to a three bet as his range is basically QQ+, AK.

That being said I do account for him on the flop and I three bet largely to get him off his hand.

Define "super-light." We're worse than a 2:1 dog to a 25% opening range. Hot and cold equity isn't everything, but KTo has wretched equity realization and we have worst position and the most capped range of the three players, so we're not exactly going to outperform our equity.

His range is wide because you know nothing about him. How are we supposed to guess his range when we've seen one hand where he made a terrible call pre and played well post? Had he 3bet before? Have you seen any other showdowns?

Your hand matters, because it takes out a 10. You check the turn because you'll get called by an over-pair and you check the river because nothing worse will call and you think you have the best hand? This does not make sense. If you think you have the best hand, what does it matter what his range is?

You are at the table -- what is your range for him? For value, I could put him on an over-pair or diamonds to start. He could have a FH or quads.

I suck at deeper stacked poker, but...

Isn't preflop a trivial fold? Hand is most likely crap against V2's 3bet range unless he's been 3betting a bunch. We're not even getting quite 20:1 implied odds against V2 plus we'll be OOP (so more difficult to make up postflop even if we do flop huge). V1 could still reraise, plus we'll be OOP to a difficult V1 postflop (as he's never folding anything to a minraise this deep closing the action).

The only hand history we have on V2 is that he likes to see a flop and then plays pretty straight forward after that. Is he really getting that out-of-line preflop? Or even on the flop? If I think it's possible he's getting out-of-line, I'd rather check/call the flop; raising just folds out worse that is drawing slim and gets us into a huge pot OOP against most likely better. I'm definitely done with it after he calls the check/raise.

River could still be a value bet by AA/etc. against our Tx, why not? He's probably not too concerned about running flush.

Gisitjustme,oristhiswholehandprettyspewy?G

Easy fold pre, if you want to get in a pot vs V2 then you can certainly wait for a better spot than this. You even said that V1 can put you in tough spots and is very aggressive, just because you're winning on the day and cover both players doesn't make this a profitable call. Like others said your hand is doing very poorly vs both villains ranges.

As for V2 range OTR it could be hands like JJ,QQ or possibly KK, maybe AT, flopped sets. Seems very unlikely that it is a complete bluff and when you check raise flop he's probably not jamming Tx here. BDFD completed but don't see him calling the flop raise with two overs and a backdoor flush draw for that much of his stack.

When you check raise the flop is almost as if you're turning your hand into a bluff, its difficult to get called by anything worse apart from a huge combo draw, but even that still has a decent chunk of equity against TPWK. And if the turn came a complete brick and you somehow got it in id imagine that you would be in terrible shape.

If you think you're ahead preflop, why aren't you 4!????

Btw - you're to the left on both Vs, if you're going to outplay them, wait until you have position on them.

When I raised flop I put him on Broadway cards or an overpair. When he calls the flop bet I think he has (a) a draw, or (b) an overpair. I agree that the card removal impact of my hand is significant, he almost never has 1010. The logic makes sense. I am checking the turn because I think his flop calling range is weighted towards overpairs and I am prepared to give up. My hand looks like a flush draw so I would expect him to bet turn. When he checks turn I think it weakens his range. On the river I expect him to have fewer overpair due to the turn check. However the draw hands that he does have are never calling a bet from me. So a bet makes no sense on the river.

So the question becomes, does he shove an overpair for value into a hand that looks like a busted flush draw (raise flop, check turn, check river). If he is shoving for value here, do I really have worse hands that could call?

I don't like your preflop at all. (oop with crappy hand in a 3bet 3way pot and might face a likely 4bet)

I don't like your flop check-raise (bloated the pot with marginal hand oop)

Given the stack size, I feel most over-pair would shove on the turn. The turn card is great for over-pair.

As played, you have to call the blank river

I think this is a joke but obviously I'm not four betting here. His four bet calling range is super narrow. You keep his range wide by flatting.

First, does V even think about these things? Second, what does your hand look like? You call from out of position pre, raise the flop, then check the turn and check the river. If he is a thinking player, he could easily be bluffing here -- or he could hope you will call his FH, quads, diamonds, straight, whatever.

The way you played the hand is very unconventional (pre-flop is horrible) and it was against an unknown, so it really is up to you to figure his range out. It is impossible for us given the info -- he has air or the essential nuts against KT.

Fold pre.

Never have a wide 3-bet flatting range in the BB at a 1/2 game with no straddle um...?

I will say that it's rare to see a 1/3 player go all in on the river on a flushed/paired board as a bluff.

Am I the only one here who hates the flop c/r?

C/r a loose, unknown villain with TP2k after a 3b With a solid player in between? So you're trying to drive V1 out, you let V2 play perfectly against you and you are out of position the rest of the way. He could have an overpair, overcards, a draw, AT. Hell 56 is in his range if he's as unknown as you say.

You've bloated the pot OOP against an unknown with a marginal hand. What's the plan now? Hope to get to showdown for no more money?

I'm trying to work more c/r into my game, but I'd way rather do this with something like NFD+overs than one pair.

If you are going to play KT from the blinds to a 3bet (or any raise for that matter) and hit top pair, the check/raise is fine -- most of us would never be here!

C/r is pretty standard with NFD + overs. If you aren't doing that yet you really need to be. I agree that a c/r with one pair is unusual but I think it needs to be part of your game. I rarely do it and am experimenting with it. It is surprisingly effective both for value and protection.

Plan was to barrel turn. Plan changed when board paired. I no longer can rep a boat with a big bet once the 6 falls.

I hate to sound so critical but you really need to reassess your game. Pre flop is atrocious, your check raise makes little to no sense as it puts you in a situation where often times only better calls and worse folds, and your plan to turn your hand into a bluff pretty much never gets better to fold against a "fish". Not only that but we target the absolutely tiniest value range when we do make the check raise. If you've noticed, not a lot of people have been talking too much about villains river range despite that being your overall question. Why? Because he could have almost anything. This is an UNKNOWN we are talking about here. I hate to say it but you put yourself in this spot and there really isn't much info to go off of. Maybe you hero him and appear to be a genius against a missed draw or look like a goofball when you have to flip over top pair against a near nut hand. The key to learning from this hand isn't to try and pick apart his range, but rather looking at all the things you did to butcher the hand that lead up to this decision. I hope you ended up making the right one, but please take the advice all these people are giving you and recognize the hand was played wrong.

I do appreciate the feedback. Please know that I don't post the hand because I think it is standard. In my entire life I've c/r flop with top pair maybe three times. That being said, I've seen people who absolutely crush LLSNL do it to great effect in some situations. So I know it is a potential tool. I don't claim that I chose the right situation here. I thought it out, but I could easily be wrong about the situation. That being said, I don't think it is a terrible play overall even if it is in this situation.