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1/3 - Shoving turn after flush gets there 1/3 - Shoving turn after flush gets there

11-24-2016 , 02:46 PM
1/3 cash game played 9-handed

Hero ($300) - Young guy, maniac image, has been raising and bluffing constantly. UTG position.

Villain ($500) - Old man coffee. Fairly passive. BTN position.

Hero raises to $20 UTG with AJss
MP calls, BTN calls, BB calls

Flop ($80, 4ways) is Ah 9h 3c

BB checks, hero bets $60, MP folds, BTN calls $60, BB folds

Turn ($200, 2ways) is 7h

Hero shoves all-in for $220

Obviously I'm scared of the flush, but I don't want to give villain a free card in case a 4th heart comes OTR. I feel that I can still extract value off weaker Ax hands and maybe even hands like K9 with the K of hearts or QQ with the Q of hearts.

What are your thoughts on this?
1/3 - Shoving turn after flush gets there Quote
11-24-2016 , 03:00 PM
Awkward stack size. Do you really think BTN calls you with K9o pre or not 3betting pre with QQ+?

Since V is passive, I'd just check turn. I feel this is a bit too thin.

Against old passive man, you can bet/fold 90 OTT as well.


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1/3 - Shoving turn after flush gets there Quote
11-24-2016 , 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keybattle
Awkward stack size. Do you really think BTN calls you with K9o pre or not 3betting pre with QQ+?
Yes, not a single player on this table had 3bet in the past 2 hours. I'm confident that he would flat a raise with QQ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keybattle
Since V is passive, I'd just check turn. I feel this is a bit too thin.
Isn't the fact that he's passive more reason to bet? Shouldn't we be betting against passive opponents and x/calling against aggro opponents?

Quote:
Originally Posted by keybattle
Against old passive man, you can bet/fold 90 OTT as well.
We don't miss value by only betting 90?
1/3 - Shoving turn after flush gets there Quote
11-24-2016 , 03:22 PM
Post flop advice could be better with some reads. Would old man coffee chase at such an awful price? Maybe some FD combos could be discounted? His call suggest more made hands imo. More action OTT implies commitment and while I think we're ahead some of the time, I don't feel comfortable stacking TP ok kicker here. V will be much less likely to bluff-catch & we just shut out hands we beat. Even when people think you're a maniac who's full of crap in many hands doesn't mean they'll take marginal propositions. If you're creating the action they can just wait it out 'till they're stronger. I'd check the turn with hopes of seeing the cheapest showdown possible.
1/3 - Shoving turn after flush gets there Quote
11-24-2016 , 03:46 PM
I typically open limp AJs in EP. We're going to end up playing OOP, the hand plays fine multiway in high SPR pots, we have zero clue how many people (and who) are interested in their hand at this point, and at some tighter tables a raise narrows the field to dominating hands; so all of this leans me to keeping the pot small preflop.

The result is what happens a lot. We end up OOP and multiway with just TPokK in a very small SPR pot where stacks should probably go in by the turn. And yet we have zero clue whether we are WA vs WB, and won't have enough streets to figure that out. We basically handcuffed all our options due to the preflop raise.

Anyhoo, at this point the board is drawy so I'd probably just PSB the flop to setup a turn shove on a safe card. I'm not a fan of our sizing of $60 as it leaves $220 left in a $200 pot. Just PSB the flop to setup a more reasonable $200 shove into $240 pot, imo.

Sucky turn obviously. But at this point, I'm not sure what else we can do. The problem is that unless we are against the fishiest of fish, there's very few worse hands that will call us at this point, unless we have a very maniacal image (which admittedly we might have).

Gpreflopmadethishandmorehighvariancethanithadtobe, imoG
1/3 - Shoving turn after flush gets there Quote
11-25-2016 , 11:23 AM
Pre is fine if the table is mostly passive. The flop action really depends on your villains. I think you should check if most of the villains are tight-passive postflop. The board is very disconnected and fairly dry despite the two hearts. They won't bet without an A or a strong hand. You gain more information oop without unnecessarily risking $$ and disguising your position. If the table is mostly loose-passive and call with most Ax hands then you should bet for value.

As played, I agree shoving and turning your TP hand into a bluff is best. An OMC will have a very tough time calling with anything other than a flush or AxKh. You're shoving for a fold, not for value. The SPR is far too low to do anything but shove.
1/3 - Shoving turn after flush gets there Quote
11-25-2016 , 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me

Obviously I'm scared of the flush, but I don't want to give villain a free card in case a 4th heart comes OTR. I feel that I can still extract value off weaker Ax hands and maybe even hands like K9 with the K of hearts or QQ with the Q of hearts.

What are your thoughts on this?


OMC doesnt usually look up these bets with these hands your giving him on the turn. They look you up with flushes and AQ AK type hands with the flush draw to go along.

Even your flop bets a tad on the large side...I dont HATE $60 into $80 but i also dont love AJ vs 3 players on that board...I think $40 accomplishes what we need.
1/3 - Shoving turn after flush gets there Quote
11-25-2016 , 09:40 PM
If Button is passive then I think checking and folding is in order.


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1/3 - Shoving turn after flush gets there Quote
11-26-2016 , 03:31 PM
I don't like this hand. Basically, you're playing your entire stack on TP good kicker. Moreover, you're representing the hand he is representing to play.

If you really had the flush, how can villain make an error? If he has the flush, he just calls.

Opening AJs is questionable. Not impossible, but questionable. Now you have a call, it's bet/fold.
1/3 - Shoving turn after flush gets there Quote
11-26-2016 , 04:13 PM
Unless V is a massive calling station you can just c/f

Value river on blank if he checks back.
1/3 - Shoving turn after flush gets there Quote
11-26-2016 , 05:18 PM
Is 20 the normal raise size at the table? It seems a tad on the high side for 1/3, so if OMC is calling this then he is at the top of his range. Once he calls the flop, he's pretty much either got a big Ace or a set. I don't think he would call 60 with a flush draw.

The turn card would normally be a great card for you to blow OMC off his hand, but he's not going to fold any made hand to a steaming maniac with just the 3flush on the board. Your sizing reeks of being FOS. If you really had the flush against an old guy, why wouldn't you just go for 3 streets of value and make the turn 85-100 to set up a trivial river jam? Even though this guy's a nit, you can't expect him to lay down that easily for only $200. If he had to call $400 or more with one pair, then I could get behind the play a lot more, but once he's put in 30% of his stack by the turn, even OMC is going to get sticky against you
1/3 - Shoving turn after flush gets there Quote

      
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