HERO/BTN(450)young kid probably neutralish image, image should not affect hand.

V/EP(250) MAWG drankin bur

limp limp limp
HERO limp 78
Deepstack BB check

Table is pretty bad and i do not want the BB to fold if I were to raise here, I feel okay overlimping with decent SCs here and using my skill and positional advantage

5way
FLOP(15) 689

EP leads out 15
2 callers
HERO calls
BB calls

Sucky flop, I have a weak OESD, a backdoor flush draw and some discounted two-pair and trip outs. I have good relative position and absolute positon and am getting decent direct odds with money behind so I feel like this is an okay flop to peel. V probably has alot of 9x straights/sets/twopair to be leading into 4 people but he is unknown. Calelrs probably have alot of weak pairs and draws

5way
FLOP(90) Q

V leads out 30
1 call from MP
HERO calls
rest fold

So V continue to barrel an overcard into 4 people, probably has less 9x now and more straights/sets/2P, no idea what MP caller has, probably same as flop calling range. Im getting good Immediate odds with some money behind so I think call is best.

3way
FLOP(180) 5

V leads 50
MP folds
HERO AI

Thoughts?

river AI ok,
Turn and flop calls are ok.

If I was going to come in on that button I would have raised pre. If I was the SB after 5 limpers? yeah limp. But otb, raise. imho.

I kind of like a raise on the turn here, and yeah raise pre from position. A raise on the turn with that much dead money to get FE seems super profitable and it sets up an easy shove on the river to any of your like 15+ outs.

Even if you get re shoved which is likely the worst situation you still have tons of equity to win. But this is a spot where I'm pushing edges and fold equity for sure. Just IMHO. Even against all 1 pair or bigger flush draw hands your in good shape, there's almost no hands your getting crushed against here.

- Flatting on the button is absolutely fine. There's no reason to raise really, you're basically building a big pot against what's likely a bunch of bad players who don't fold with an inferior hand. Take the cheap flop. Give some table dynamics and I'll say differently, but there's no rule you have to raise pre flop when you come in.

- Flop/Turn/River seem super straightforward. Of course you call in position on the flop. Ditto turn. And of course you shove and hope you run into a 7 or a ****** with a set/two pair.

Unless limpers / blinds are pretty tight, I'm only raising premiums at looser tables with 3 limpers to me. So I'm cool with the overlimp cuz I'm super OMC passive like that.

Really easy flop fold, imo. We've seen a lot of hands like this recently, and my answer is always the same. We have no IO (we really think we are going to get paid off when our 4-to-a-straight hits?), we have horrible RIO against a better made straight, and on top of all that if someone else has an 7x (which is somewhat likely given this action) then we're chopping all our profits 2 or 3 ways and don't earn even remotely enough to justify a call. So calling is horrible, imo. I think an argument could be made for a raise (hopefully blowing out chopping hands), but I'm just no convinced we have much FE when 3 others are already showing interest in the pot. Our "other" outs are pretty much worthless, imo.

Even though we have people to react behind us, I'm guessing most people with monsters ain't attempting to check/raise this drawy board (for fear of the board checking thru). Our backdoor flush is most likely good, we're already getting the correct immediate odds, and there's a decent chance someone has a monster and will pay off our disguised hand. I also call.

Easy shove on the river.

ETA: No one else thinks the flop call sucks balls? Cuz it does, imo.

Gflopwasbutcheredbutrestisgood,imoG

AP, I actually also like folding limped MP for non IO reasons stated. Though, I think folding a board that hits our raw hand this well in limped pot means that PFR works better esp OTB. If we are only continuing on ~1% of flops (nut SDs, some trips) then why even call in the first place?

Maybe that's a bit unfair, but a PFR doesn't correlate to just losing a bigger pot to the same set of hands (assuming all players called and action remained the same) since it should get to SD less often and there are easier lines to find value with Becaaue of the FE/initiative/positional edge. Think about how this particular runout plays out with a standard PFR instead of limp

Dude, it's 5 BB. Let's muck because we didn't flop a str8 flush.

Limp OTB is fine. Someone may have been trapping.

I don't think the flop call is terrible. The pot is is now 60 bucks and hero has to put in 15 bucks holding a pair, oesd, and backdoor flush draw.

Lets not forget that hero does not have to make his hand in order to win this pot. If two bricks hit the turn and river, hero can use his positional advantage and easily steal with a large river bet if all opponents check.

Also, low stakes villains have major leaks when playing limped pots. Against good players, we wouldn't expect to get paid off if our straight comes in. But all it takes is one donk to get overly attached to their two pair or set and they will pay off big when we hit our hand.

All in all, there's too many opportunities for our opponents to make mistakes. This is the exact time we want to be playing hands w/ our opponents, especially since we are in position.

I think limp is ok but I default to raising in this spot.

If you think this flop is sucky for your hand you should probably just fold or raisepre...pair and an open-ender with backdoor hearts isn't a bad flop for this hand at all.

I'm with the guy saying turn raise here is good. I think we get enough folds and have enough equity when called for it to be a good spot.

Shove river is a must imo.

Looks good all the way 'round.

Easy flop call, could consider raising turn because we can get a fold from a 9 a bunch while making a SD fold out their equity.

River shove is spot on, nobody is ever folding a 7.

He bets flop for pot and then bets turn for 1/3 pot. What does that tell us? Generally this tells me that he is uncomfortable with either the turn or the amount of action he got on the flop. I tend to think the turn is indicative of A9, K9 or a weak two pair (Maybe 10s or Js if he opted to not raise pre). I would expect sets and good two pair to bet larger OTT because there is a lot of draws out there. Yea, maybe villain got scared with that type of hand, but we block some sets and two pair and we have decent equity against them with a OESD and Fdraw.

That makes me start thinking bluff raise, so let's look at that option. Every player is showing weakness. We that we now have a likely have a ton of equity vs the main villain, but not very good equity if multiway (likely to chop if we hit a straight, 7 is likely to give someone else a straight, 8 may fill someone up, may be against dominated Fdraw). I'm raising turn fairly large as a bluff.

As played, I think you need to raise the river smaller. No one is assigning him a range with 7s in it and yet now, we all of the sudden just pray he has a 7? I'm min-raising and hoping he can't let go of two pair or a weirdly played set.

The amount of bbs has absolutely no relevance. We're getting 4:1 on our 5:1 draw. If anyone else has a 7x (a decent chance of this given the action), we're getting 2:1 to chase our 5:1 draw and will split all future profits (future profits on a 4-to-a-straight board) with them. On top of that, every other "out" has high RIO and low IO, with the only exception being the runner runner backdoor flush outs.

Gcan'tbelieveI'mtheonlyonewhothinksflopcallsucks?G

GG, I believe that limping the button and then folding this flop is horrible actually. How can you be so strongly against calling here? You do realize we have middle pair and a backdoor flushdraw next to our OESD, right?

I'm not sure about the river shove as well. With his weak bet sizes he hardly ever (if ever!) has a hand he's going to call a shove with, right?

Stealing pots in a 4+ way pot is hard.

Getting paid off on 4-to-a-straight board in a 4+ way pot is hard.

GamIwrong?G

Not all OESD + pair + backdoor flush draws are the same. A A96 flop is *way* better as there's way better chance we get paid off (high IO), we're drawing to the nuts (low RIO), and much less chance we're chopping all profits. We saw a cheap flop in position to hit a blue chipper; this flop ain't nearly as good as everyone thinks it is, imo.

River shove is good because it's a relatively small shove compared to pot, Villain is highly unlikely to fold a 7, and our backdoor draw is disguised.

GcluelessNLnoobG

BB size absolutely has relevance. SPR is super important. We have a pair that is likely live. A straight draw that might be live. We have a flush draw that is most definitely live. Most importantly, we have position on tards.

I took the statement to mean "c'mon man, it's only 5bb", which of course means nothing in itself. It only means something in terms of stacks behind (which is what you're getting at with the SPR).

But even with big stacks behind, when you hit on the turn you'll usually find the only money going into the pot on this board is with the guy(s) you're sharing the money with (or the guy who has you crushed).

Git'salosingplay,imoG

I'm not saying it's a coin flip, but a big pot gets shipped our way sometimes, too.

If I meant only I would have said it.

You'd have a much better argument if we thought we were up against dangerous players or didn't have position. I'm not worried about playing any of these guys in position and would be surprised if we didn't make a nice little chunk if we hit. Something like A7 off is a much different hand in this spot. We have about 4.5 outs that people will not see coming and will pay, plus the straight equity.