Hi all,

Loose 1/3 game

V: main V is okay but I think he definitely squeezes too much in obvious spots but no one is really doing anything.

H: playing tight I only have 275 this hand. Prob a nit image.

OTTH: limpet UTG, I raise to 16 with red Kings

HJ calls main V calls BB and limper calls

(65) Flop: Qh 10s 3s

I bet 35 cutoff calls v raises to 165

Is this just a jam for us?

I think if we have black Kings it’s different

He’s repping tons of combo draws or pair plus combo

I make the whole hand easier (and thus likely more profitable, although this is dependent on how black/white you think the flop decision is) by limping preflop.

Raising mostly just gets us in the stoopid spot we're in now, a high variance / low SPR / while giving multiple players great IO spot.

As played, I guess soul read with multiple things to consider. By villain squeezing a lot, do you mean just preflop, or does this apply to postflop spots like this? A lotta sets (QQ, maybe TT) might be discounted due to preflop. He's check/raising a nit who raised in EP preflop. There's another guy involved. There's some big draws he could be doing this with (especially since we don't block them).

But in the end, I attempt to avoid these spots, because I think when we look back at them with a clearer head later we mostly realize they are just a super high variance random button clicking spot. But, as I say, the more you think the decision is slam dunk black versus white, the more you'll be perfectly happy getting in these spots.

GI'mnotsureyou'llgetanygreatanswerstowhattodoonthe flopG

Pre is fine. If you know you can go more, go more, but if this usually gets a lot of folds, it's fine.

Vs. this guy for less than 100bb, I probably just shove. At best he probably has QT, which stinks, but we have a few outs. He could easily have AsXs, AQ, KQ, QJ, straight draw, etc.

check flop vs 3 players imo

you have a nit image. if you check the flop everyone will put you on AK.

if someone with a small or medium stack bets and no one raises then spring the trap and CR.

if it goes bet and then raise then just fold

also dont limp preflop, you have kings you shouldnt be looking to make nothing on em.

username checks out

nits can win too

This is a jam or fold. You have no fold equity if you call. If you jam, villain should call but others are not getting the right price without a premium hand. You are usually ahead here, especially against someone who likes to squeeze a lot, but you can't let anyone else in if at all possible.

V could have overvalued AQ (or is squeezing with it) or several draws. I'd probably just go with the variance and see his cards face up.

He had Q7ss

I mean it’s extremely close and we are basically flipping for the extra ~67 from the other two players

seems a lot to get in for a flip

most guys here have a range of big draws and made hands

that ranges crushes yours

that said theres already too much in the pot

probably why i check the flop

With 275 eff I’m just sticking my red Kings in his eye here. He could have all kinds of draws and some JJ too . If he’s got a set I suppose we can reload and we were probably always getting felted with our Kk.

Obviously you’d prefer not to go MW preflop so I assume 16 open normally thins the field. Otherwise it needs to be bigger.

It’s probably safe to assume he has a straight and a flush draw. We hold two of the straight outs. So he’s got 13 outs twice and I guess we’re flipping. That said we’re ahead of bluffs/spaz and random gut shots and other 6-out combos he could have.

We offer him 2-1 on his call of our jam. I doubt he’s folding because he’ll get the correct price a lot here.

Pre is fine, don’t limp LOL.

I fold here, reason is this action MW usually beats 1 pair. Jamming can’t be terrible with these stacks though.

It's close if you're calling and you know villain has Qs7s. Construct a possible range and then decide if it is a flip.

I constructed 2 ranges, one with some possible Qxo hands that I believe the BB could have here, and one with only Qxs hands and QJo. Each range included possible spade draws. Against the range with the Qxo hands, hero was 70/30. Without, hero was 60/40. Not exactly a flip.

Against an unknown V who is doing a lot of squeezing preflop it’s close but I don’t think we can fold KK here. We aren’t doing that poorly against QT, the only set he likely has is 33, and there are plenty of bluffs. Given that we are OOP, and most of his bluffs will be getting a good price against a jam anyway I think jamming is good. We have the right price to get it in against hands like QJss even though we will be slightly behind those types of hands.

I would consider $18 pre and $45 on the flop but that’s fairly nit picky. Unless you have a specific reason to, don’t limp and don’t check flop.

+1 to badreg's advice, more pre, more flop, jam AP

raise more pre
as played this is a pretty easy gii
if we're folding KK here and have a nit range we're going to be exploited super hard by Qxs, Kxs, Axs
cutoff calling is good for us here because he's blocking the range of sets and two pairs that we're behind

I pile it in. If he has QT so be it.

It's a great flop. He has Q7 and a FD.

Good spot for you. Hope the other guy called and the board ran true and you scooped.

Hi all...

If he shows us this exact hand it is definitely profitable/+EV to get it in but what do you guys think of the variance here? We are essentially flipping for the dead money

I always like to gii when I'm ahead, even slightly. Screw variance. Re-load.

I think it's fair to ask whether this is the best we can do, basically flipping for 94% of our stack for some relatively little dead money.

Of course, I'm never going to say this route isn't profitable. And you also have to factor in the great times such as when we're up against AQ (but you also have to factor in the bad times when we're up against 33). And there will be times our flop cbet simply takes it down (although a limp/reraise often does that except with 0% variance plus no rake), but that also has to be offset by the times be outplayed postflop (in part thanks to being OOP) and we make a bad fold (which we will sometimes consider doing). And on top of all that you also have to be prepared mentally to ride a much more raucous ride; I doubt most are prepared for the lowest lows as they think they are.

Open limping isn't nearly as horrible as people are making it out to be and is most definitely EV. Whether it's worse/better than open raising I think is perfectly debatable and far from lolable.

GcluelessNLnoobG

We are less than 100bb with KK, we should never be limping. This is when we need to get the money in and start building a pot. Having a limp-fest with KK from OOP, especially when we consider folding to pressure, is a terrible idea.

Also, we have less than 100bb with KK on a drawy board vs. a player who likes to squeeze -- we should never consider folding.

I play with a 66bb stack and almost never raise until LP. I'm not losing.

(although it is perfectly valid to question whether I would win more by doing something else).

GcluelessNLnoobG

GG, if you limp here, and only V limps behind, which is optimistic, what do you do on the flop? Bet/fold? Check/call and check/fold the turn? Check/call all the way down and pray -- and make the least possible if we end up with the best hand, which we will/should a majority of the time vs. two players?

Exactly. And you never want to move up in stakes and get better or play against better opponents, so I see your point.

Having the best hand for 5% of your stack preflop ain't as valuable as you think it is.

OP is playing in a loose 1/3 LLSNL game; I'll let him confirm how often they're seeing a HU limped pot (my guess would be exactly never, but I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong).

But if that happens, simply play some postflop poker in position in a high SPR pot.

I know some hate this SPR stuff (Gil, avert your eyes), but PNLHE gives some pretty good arguments that big pairs play perfectly fine in both low SPR pots (where we've gotten in enough preflop to comfortably commit) as well as high SPR pots (where we simply play some postflop pokrs without being handcuffed). Note that if you play in a deepstack game, high SPR pots will also be created by raising preflop (so you're free to have a wide raising range here if that's your style). They play the worst in middling SPR pots, especially multiway where anyone can trivially commit us and yet we didn't get in enough preflop to feel comfortable about committing. Guess which spot we're mostly in with a raise preflop from EP in a typical loose LLSNL non-deep game?

GbutdowhatyouwantG

I know it's never going to happen. That's my point ("which is optimistic"). Heck, four-ways sucks. Instead of four ways, we would now have KK, OOP, multi-way (probably the whole table), which is even worse. Even more reason to raise and not limp. And we have some initiative/control with the raise, but only if you are decent post, which means never folding to this guy.

If you want low variance and small wins and just sit there for a few hours making $20, limp away.