9 handed
Standard midday weak/passive table

Hero 400 (button) J10
Villain 300... (MP) MAWG, never seen him in the room before. Not done anything out of line in the hour or so we have played together. Seems a bit passive and casual.

1 caller and checks to hero OTB
Hero raises 15, SB and Villan call (pot 48)

1084
VX H20... Villain calls (88)

Q
VX, H30... Villain calls (148)

J
VX.....


So, I am struggling with just trying to get basic PF raising ranges and cbetting ranges/sizing organized after a long break from the game...

PF... J10s has to be a raise from the button PF, no? What if it were A10o-J10o or KJo/QJo?
What about hands like 109s,108s, & 89s?
Would the number of callers in front affect my decision with these hands?

Flop... Similar to my hand before, is the cbet sizing too small w/top pair mid kicker? No way I check, right?

Turn.. Seems like a good bluff card to double barrel.. If I check I'm inviting a steal attempt from the villain OTR as well, correct? Is the sizing too small?

Are we bluffing? Why is this a good card to double barrel?

That would be a good thing right?

Firstly the "callers in front" are called limpers not callers. This makes clear they just called the big blind rather than that someone raised and the others called. Just helps avoid confusion.

Second thee only way someone can check before the BTN acts preflop is if they missed their blinds during a break from the table. Probably best to state that this is the case for clarity because they don't count as a normal limper due to having a random hand. Effectively they're an additional blind.


On to your main query: what should you be raising over limpers with in late position?

This is called "isolating" because you're hoping you're raise either folds everyone out or gets you heads-up in position going to the flop. I.e. you isolated one of the limpers.

So your decision whether to raise to isolate (iso-raise) or limp behind with a particular hand depends on the limping ranges and playing styles of the limpers and the aggressiveness of the players waiting to act behind you.

Generally speaking limpers will either be "honest" or "deceptive". Honest limpers are ABC players who fold their worst starting hands, limp their weak and medium strength hands and raise their strong hands. Deceptive limpers are sometimes (or always) limping strong hands. You want to identify the different types of limpers as quickly as possible.

Also some limpers, whether honest or deceptive, will limp wide ranges while others will limp tight ranges. You want to quickly guage the strength of different players' limping ranges before making huge changes to your standard value raising ranges.

Generally you don't want to use a wide range to isolate deceptive limpers. I'd stick to solid value hands that you believe are ahead of the deceptive limpers limp/calling range. Note that it's no good to isolate hands that are ahead of their limping range but behind their limp/calling range. You'd be better off limping behind with these in position provided you're unlikely to get raised by players left to act behind you.

You also want to avoid using a wide isolating range on limpers who are strong postflop players. Again, stick to solid value that's ahead of their limp/calling range, at least until you start to identify their exploitable weaknesses.

The type of limper you want to really open up your isolating range against is a loose honest limper who plays badly postflop. Playing badly postflop broadly means they either over-fold or over-call.

If they err on the side of folding too often to aggresion post flop then you can isolate them with a wide range of speculative hands intending to mostly barrel them off their hands postflop.

If they err on the side of calling too often with weak holdings then you can isolate them with a wider than normal value range with the intention of value betting them to death postflop when you hit reasonable pairs.

If there are aggressive and capable players behind you then you need to be careful not to open up your isolating ranges too much lest they recognise what you're doing and start 3betting you frequently preflop.

So unfortunately I can't give you exact isolation ranges because they'll be so villain dependent but hopefully this helps you recognise the factors to look for when constructing your own ranges.

Pre is fine. If there were a bunch of limpers, JTs could be in my overlimp range, but usually it's a raise OTB, as are most of the hands you listed except the last 3, which I would usually overlimp.

Flop c-bet is a bit small, imo, though smaller c-bets are in vogue these days. I pretty much never bet under half-pot in cash games for fat value and because people overpay for draws a lot in LLSNL.

Turn bet is silly, imo. You're not getting any folds from better hands at that tiny sizing, so it is not a bluff, and you aren't charging draws enough or getting calls from worse tens that don't also have a draw, so it is not value. Passive V's will almost never try to steal OTR. For a more aggressive V, you've got a good bluff catcher so letting him fire OTR is fine.

Check back river. He's unlikely to fold a better hand or call with a worse one, and you lose to any random 9, of which a bunch are in his range (J9, 9T, 89). Maybe he'd fold QJ or QT to a decent bet, but I doubt there's much of that in his range.

I guess we aren't bluffing.. I did figure that raising on the queen would fold out k10 and a10.. although a 1/3 pot raise most likely isn't going to do that...

I guess it depends how big the steal attempt is otr.. if it's too much over 1/2 pot Im most likely folding and I could possibly have the best hand..

I think Garrick is right about the turn bet. Check it back and evaluate the river. Don't suddenly decide to turn a pair into a bluff just because you're worried about being bet into on the river, particularly against passive players

More generally when you don't have a good read and there's no dynamic developed between you and a specific opponent I'd advise just playing straightforward yourself: bet for value when you think it's appropriate but don't bluff till you know they can fold and don't overthink when you've got know data inform your thinking.

All those hands could be raised from the BTN, depending on the number of limpers.

Flop – ok, a little small unless you are sizing AJ+/JJ+ similarly.

Turn – check or size a little higher. Q should not help his flop calling range; block QT/QJ. I’d lean towards a check with MPWK.

River – B/F ½ PSB given V descript.

Not to be pedantic, but your bet OTT is a bet, not a raise. To make a raise, someone has to have bet first.

Dang, this is so well written - and worth remembering when in action.

Ehhh, if i have JTs I'm not just raising for isolation. Frankly, going multiway would be preferred but heads up is ok too.

Also it should be noted that in a lot of good low stakes games you aren't isolating anyone by raising.

^ that's true but then you're into juicing-the-pot territory. Your postflop game better be really excellent otherwise you're going to get yourself in some tough spots even IP. I'd limp behind or raise big enough to get folds and isolate until I had good reads on everyone.

Edit: I'm sure Dreamcrusher's postflop game is excellent - I mean one must be excellent postflop

Preflop you are obviously playing, I think raising one limper on the button is fine as a default and as long as he's not some rock trying to trap all the time. Calling is also fine.

Flop: Bet sizing is ok, I would probably bet a little more like 25.

Turn: I don't really get why we are betting. Are we trying to fold out AT/KT or are we trying to charge draws? I assume it's the latter, but a lot of draws just got there on the turn...

River: I don't think we can bet for value on the river. He has a lot of 9's and better two pair, so a bet is more like a bluff trying to fold out a better two pair which I don't think most people will do in the spot. GL

I'm either/or preflop. At one time I thought this was an auto-raise. Now I think an overlimp is perfectly fine too. Pretty limper/blinds/image/stack dependent. Given our turn thinking (which I think is really wack) I think we should lean to keeping pots small preflop and overlimping where we then make smaller mistakes postflop.

I'm fine with our small flop bet. Pretty drawless board but our hand could easily be good and we're betting for some protection against 2 opponents.

Pretty easy check back for me on the turn. One of the only draws got there (J9 OESD) and we could have easily been crushed by this guy on this flop. I'm looking to get to showdown cheap and I may even fold if this guy donks the river even after I weakly check back the turn. Are we thinking we're still going for 3 streets of value against worse? Why are we thinking this is a good turn card to bluff when we actually have a showdownable hand? What hands are we attempting to fold?

On the river I probably check back because I think we rarely get called by worse.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Preflop
Am raising all day long unless there was some factor on villians limping.
Flop
Cbet is fine a little small for my liking think more around 40-50 range.
Turn
Either check or bet but if you going to be dont do some crappy little 1/5 psb bet as it doesnt achieve anything. I like something more in the 1/2 psb but is really villian dependant on calling/chasing
River
Am checking this back a lot, we really have a bluff catcher here,we could bet but with the board like it is i dont really seeing too much worst calling it off.
On the flop I think you really going to get 2 streets of value max.
As the board isnt that draw heavy i would be incline to go for flop check turn check river bet but given board run out more likely flop bet turn check river check.

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Double-down on this...big time

Even for players that have been playing for years and years, this is such a solid reminder of one of the autonomic functions we perform at the table in the first hour or so that we sit down.