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Old 04-15-2018, 03:35 AM   #1
XXX555666
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1/3 QsQc UTG+1

Hi all,

V1: very tilted. Lost a few buy ins. Verbally abusing players/dealers. He has $100 to start the hand.

V2: Drunk guy. Actually playing well for being drunk. Caught bluffing a few times. Made some good calls. He has like ~$500

H: I'm on V1's direct left. I've been three betting him a ton pre. He opens too lightly. Saw him raise K10 off UTG before. I cover the table.

OTTH: V1 is UTG and raises to 15$ We are UTG+1 and decide to 3-bet to $35 with two black queens. Thoughts? Reasoning I went so small is that with this sizing I expect him/want him to jam a lot here more than he would flat.

V2 is in the SB and flats. V1 decides to call.

($108)

Flop is AJ7

We all check. Thoughts??

Turn is a 6. V2 goes WOWWWW you checked now I know you have nothing and he bets $30. V1 folds. We tank call?

($168)River is an 8he thinks for a little and checks...


Thoughts overall?
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Old 04-15-2018, 03:59 AM   #2
Shai Hulud
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Re: 1/3 QsQc UTG+1

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Originally Posted by Richard32 View Post
Hi all,

V1: very tilted. Lost a few buy ins. Verbally abusing players/dealers. He has $100 to start the hand.

V2: Drunk guy. Actually playing well for being drunk. Caught bluffing a few times. Made some good calls. He has like ~$500

H: I'm on V1's direct left. I've been three betting him a ton pre. He opens too lightly. Saw him raise K10 off UTG before. I cover the table.

OTTH: V1 is UTG and raises to 15$ We are UTG+1 and decide to 3-bet to $35 with two black queens. Thoughts? Reasoning I went so small is that with this sizing I expect him/want him to jam a lot here more than he would flat.

V2 is in the SB and flats. V1 decides to call.

($108)

Flop is AJ7

We all check. Thoughts??

Turn is a 6. V2 goes WOWWWW you checked now I know you have nothing and he bets $30. V1 folds. We tank call?

($168)River is an 8he thinks for a little and checks...


Thoughts overall?
35 is too small. I think his decision matrix is the same if you make it 45 to 50 and it makes it much easier for you to call if he jams and helps keep the pot from going multiway.

AP checking back flop is fine. It's fairly likely someone has an Ace 3-way.

AP gotta call V2. His bet is tiny and he could have OESD, diamonds, QT, KJ, JT. Even if he has 2p e.g. 76 you have odds to call assuming you can get a bet out of him if the board pairs or you spike a Q.

OTR just check it back. I don't think you're getting worse hands to call unless you size tiny. The risk of V2 check-raising diamonds or a straight is pretty high. People at this level love to get all trappy. The only merit to betting is you *might* get an Ace to fold. But you'll have to size large and you're turning a hand with decent showdown value into a bluff. I would have to feel pretty sure V2 in fact has a weak Ace and that he's capable of laying it down to bet the river here.

Last edited by Shai Hulud; 04-15-2018 at 04:05 AM.
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Old 04-15-2018, 04:19 AM   #3
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Re: 1/3 QsQc UTG+1

Looks fine.
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Old 04-15-2018, 04:55 AM   #4
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Re: 1/3 QsQc UTG+1

I'd still like to 3! larger but the hand was played fine.
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Old 04-15-2018, 07:14 AM   #5
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Re: 1/3 QsQc UTG+1

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I'd still like to 3! larger but the hand was played fine.
He hasn't revealed his river action. Is checking it back the general consensus?
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Old 04-15-2018, 02:46 PM   #6
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Re: 1/3 QsQc UTG+1

Check back the river. He's probably checking all his aces when the flush draw comes in
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Old 04-15-2018, 05:01 PM   #7
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Re: 1/3 QsQc UTG+1

I don’t think a loose player checks back an Ace. You can go for a thin value.
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Old 04-15-2018, 05:29 PM   #8
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Re: 1/3 QsQc UTG+1

I probably check. Is a jack really going to call you OTR when a flush comes in?
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:14 PM   #9
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Re: 1/3 QsQc UTG+1

I'm fine with our preflop sizing. V1 doesn't have the odds to ~setmine against us, he's tilting and opening wide, we leave ourselves a ~PSB against him to get in on the flop, easy peasy. Things obviously change a little when V2 coldcalls a 3bet.

Board is a little drawy so we're not exactly WA/WB plus a K could fall on the turn. Still, our hand is weakish on an Ax board plus JJ is like a prime 3bet coldcall candidate. I'm also checking behind. I'm likely feeling sigh committed against the shortstack but not really looking to put in any money against the deeper guy.

Lol @ speech. Looks to be begging for a call with it. Even though we weakly checked back the flop and could setup bluffcatchers and his sizing is very small, his speech plus the fact V1 could easily commit plus this board, I lean towards folding. I don't hate a call based on the odds we're getting, but it's not going to get any easier on the river either, so if we're planning to fold to a bet on the river then better to just fold now.

As played, I just take my showdown value and check behind.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 04-16-2018, 07:28 PM   #10
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Re: 1/3 QsQc UTG+1

I think you want to be careful reading too much into speeches from drunk players. They're disinhibited and much more likely to talk. I've seen them give speeches in all kinds of situations (and done it myself).
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:12 PM   #11
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Re: 1/3 QsQc UTG+1

3bet sizing is weird but because of tilt player and the dynamic I'm ok with it. You were hoping to induce a jam and I can get behind that.

As played I probably check behind instead of betting which you should only be doing if you're betting big to fold out Ax hands.
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Old 04-16-2018, 09:38 PM   #12
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Re: 1/3 QsQc UTG+1

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He hasn't revealed his river action. Is checking it back the general consensus?
I'd check river. We'd really only hope to get a crying call from Jx on an A high board when the front door flush draw comes in. I'd have to know the V is a super sticky calling station to go for value on this river.
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:37 PM   #13
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Re: 1/3 QsQc UTG+1

Looks fine except I'd 3 bet bigger against a tilted player in V1 hoping to isolate them and get it all in on the flop
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:24 AM   #14
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Re: 1/3 QsQc UTG+1

Deffo 3! bigger pre. Drunk guys stack is irrelevant as we are calling his shove regardless...make sure you don't offer someone with $500+ IO to call and set mine.

Honestly, I fold the turn to his bet. He has an an Ace almost always here, so just let it go and don't invest anymore. AP, check the river.
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Old 04-17-2018, 12:55 PM   #15
Shai Hulud
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Re: 1/3 QsQc UTG+1

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Originally Posted by shorn7 View Post
Deffo 3! bigger pre. Drunk guys stack is irrelevant as we are calling his shove regardless...make sure you don't offer someone with $500+ IO to call and set mine.

Honestly, I fold the turn to his bet. He has an an Ace almost always here, so just let it go and don't invest anymore. AP, check the river.
30 into 108? That could easily be diamonds or JX or KT. I think we need to peel at that price and reevaluate OTR. If he's a huge nit sure just fold, but he's been caught bluffing and is drunk so we should assume he's semibluffing the turn fairly often after this flop checks through.
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:17 PM   #16
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Re: 1/3 QsQc UTG+1

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Originally Posted by Shai Hulud View Post
30 into 108? That could easily be diamonds or JX or KT. I think we need to peel at that price and reevaluate OTR. If he's a huge nit sure just fold, but he's been caught bluffing and is drunk so we should assume he's semibluffing the turn fairly often after this flop checks through.
We 3! pre and declined to bet an Ace high flop (mistake of course). We have told anyone who is paying any attention that we don't have an Ace and so we get led into. At this point, we are set mining OTR and getting 3.25-1 is a bad choice. I would fold this routinely (but would have bet the flop so....).
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:23 PM   #17
Shai Hulud
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Re: 1/3 QsQc UTG+1

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Originally Posted by shorn7 View Post
We 3! pre and declined to bet an Ace high flop (mistake of course). We have told anyone who is paying any attention that we don't have an Ace and so we get led into. At this point, we are set mining OTR and getting 3.25-1 is a bad choice. I would fold this routinely (but would have bet the flop so....).
Right, that's my point. Drunk bluffy guy knows we have no Ace and stabs at the pot with a small bet. He may or may not have an Ace but we should really peel here, not to set mine (though if we do hit a Q we may win a big pot), but because we still beat enough of villain's range to make calling profitable.

If he bet 100 yeah okay fold but 30? We need to be good less than 1 time in 4. Folding here is giving up too easily IMO.

As an aside I probably C-bet this flop too but checking back has merit. However if we do check it back we need to be prepared to bluff catch since our check back looks weak.
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