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1/3 QQ facing flop raise $1000 deep

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02-23-2018 , 08:06 PM

nicname

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 647

$1000 eff

Mod addition to notes Main villain is mid 30s white male. Plays for a living. Capable of flatting KK and AA here. See my range for given villain. I would argue villain is capable of c/r, bluffing big spades and c/r for value all sets/ over pairs.

MP $15
HJ call
Hero $50 QcQs
BB (Reg) call $50
MP, HJ call

Flop: 9s7s4c

XXX

Hero $75
BB $275
MP Fold
HJ Fold
Hero???

A friend played this hand. He ranged BB TT+, AKo+ PF.

I ranged BB 77+, KQs+, AKo+ PF. He will flat KK and AA some portion of time.

Last edited by venice10; 02-23-2018 at 08:57 PM. Reason: Added note as per OP request

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02-23-2018 , 08:40 PM

venice10

Referee

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 25,855

The problem with these sort of threads is that we don't have any reads on the villains, even to the basic level of male/female and age. There's some players I'd shove over, others I'd call and many that I'd just fold.

The only thing that can be said with some certainity is that if you decide to play on, you're risking $1000. You can not count on the villain checking the turn and river. There's less than a PSB left if you call on the flop. The money is most likely going in.

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02-23-2018 , 08:49 PM

nicname

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 647

Villain is mid 30s white male. Plays for a living. Capable of flatting KK and AA here. See my range for given villain. I would argue villain is capable of c/r, bluffing big spades and c/r for value all sets/ over pairs.

Hero has played over 1000 hours vs villain.

Plz put this in op because forum is won't let me.

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02-23-2018 , 09:30 PM

Nogyong

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,801

Fold. I'm not stacking off for 330bb here with an SPR of 9:1.

A cold call of a 3bet out of the blinds should set off some alarm bells.

His range looks heavily weighted towards AA (6 combos) /99 (3 combos)/ AsKs (1 combo).

I slightly discount KK because I think he would have to be a little afraid if AA and its less likely he'll want to stack off with that.

It's worth noting that we have Q

in our hand.

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02-23-2018 , 09:44 PM

nicname

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 647

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogyong

in our hand.

Pot is 550 after Bb c/r flop.

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02-23-2018 , 11:39 PM

ChrisV

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40,336

This is a super trivial fold. Things would be tougher if Hero had AA. I think your ranging of BB is more accurate, at least in terms of the fact that mid pairs are in his range this deep.

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02-24-2018 , 12:02 AM

Nogyong

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,801

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicname

Pot is 550 after Bb c/r flop.

I beg your pardon. There was 150 in the pot and 950 in effective stacks before our cbet meaning the SPR following the pre-flop raise is more like 5.3:1.

Either way, I'm not committed to stacking off here. Maybe if we started the hand with effective stacks of 425 I would be resigned to getting the chips in here.

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02-24-2018 , 01:42 PM

Chicagodude

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 2,810

Honestly, i understand folding here given the stacks but isn't that an argument for getting up when you're too deep? Under normal circumstances I never fold here.

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02-24-2018 , 02:20 PM

Koss

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 7,099

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicagodude

Honestly, i understand folding here given the stacks but isn't that an argument for getting up when you're too deep? Under normal circumstances I never fold here.

You win when your opponents make mistakes. The cost of those mistakes can be much greater when stacks get deep. Deeper will always be more profitable when we have the edge against our opponents. Just because some spots play differently, and we have to make folds we otherwise wouldn't, doesn't mean we should avoid it. However if you aren't comfortable with your deep stacked game, then you should avoid it and get up when you're ahead like this, yes.

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02-24-2018 , 06:26 PM

#10

johnny_on_the_spot

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 11,608

Are we btn or sb?

I don't like our sizing regardless, but sizing for sb > btn. Assuming sb based on flop action (though in 3! Pot, everyone would probably check to us), I'd probably be closer to 75-90 range

Flop is a b/f

Against better players we're going to want to check flops like this sometimes. Not sure if it's warranted here, but something to think about

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02-24-2018 , 06:50 PM

#11

johnnyBuz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 7,563

Pre was def too small from the SB - especially this deep.

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02-24-2018 , 08:50 PM

#12

Nogyong

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,801

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicagodude

Under normal circumstances I never fold here.

I guess its all relative in terms of what you regard to be 'normal'.

With effective stacks of 400, I think we have the right pot odds against his range to stack off.

With effective stacks of 600 or more, I think we can let it go.

In any case, it's just not that easy for villain to C/R into 3 players here without a set or a monster draw. I guess with shallower stacks, he can start to have JJ in his range some percentage of the time.

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02-24-2018 , 09:42 PM

#13

Abcdonkhere

newbie

Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicname

Do you have any live reads on villain? In the over 1000 hours you have played with him, have you ever seen him get spewy?

What is your history with villain in terms of prior hands?

Can you see him thinking that you're trying to steal this pot with a-k or a-q and trying to take it away for the check-raise?

Hypothetically, if you call the check-raise, is he shoving any turn?

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