I'll skip over pre, but feel free to comment.
The table was quite loose/passive overall

V1 (covers): Opens wide, calls wide. Likes to donk into pfr with middling weakish hands and stab at flops in position

Hero ($650): TAG image, showed down only winners

V2 ($200): no real reads, seemed to be loose/passive

V3 ($350): Limping often, have seen him iso raise w/QJo big once. Generally passive postflop, check/calling & calling draws

V4 ($175): no real reads, seemed to be loose/passive

V1 limps UTG, Hero (UTG+1) raises AQ to $20, V2(EP) calls, V3 (MP) calls, V4 (LP) calls, V1 (UTG) calls)

Flop AJT ($100)
V1 checks, Hero???

Check

Any reasoning why vs loose/passives?

At loose tables I actually think raising AQo OOP is pretty meh. Our result (lol 5ways setting up small handcuffing SPRs of ~1.5 / ~2 / ~3 / ~6) sucks, although not everyone will see it the same way as I do.

I probably check the flop and evaluate. A lotta dominated hands got there. Although if we're ahead (which we could be) checking in a big pot (where you could almost argue we're committed against some of the smaller stacks) could end up being a massive mistake (which really goes back to the preflop spot we put ourselves in).

GcluelessNLnoobG

Easy check.

Think about your range on this flop opening from EP...AQ isn't even that great. We have AJ, ATs, AK, AA, JJ, TT, KQ.


Super standard check call

So you advocate limping behind or folding AQo vs a single limper?

I think either of those are way better than the result we just ended up in.

There's currently another what-to-do-with-AQ thread but it's in the nosebleed 2/5 NL stakes that I don't play so I won't comment, but a couple in there suggest folding it preflop in EP. Can't say I totally disagree.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Poop spot, check/eval leaning towards c/c

OP, Let's put V on a limping range in EP that calls your raise. What part of V's range misses this flop, or makes a hand weaker than yours?

What part of that weaker range would be enticed to bet a blank turn card?

If he has QJ, KJ etc., he really doesn't have many outs, now does he?

I would be betting here. Although the hand is nothing to write home about it's still probably the best hand against this lot. We can comfortably get it in against V2 and V4. V1 checked into a huge crowd so he probably doesn't have like JT or something or he'd lead. That just leaves the passive V3, who is the only threatening stack with position on us. If either of the latter two raise us we can fold with a clear conscience. Against a crowd like this on a fairly wet board the downsides of checking are too steep compared to the downsides of betting.

In a very tough game, I can see the merit in that.

At your average 1/2 game, where people are calling with many mediocre Aces it seems like you're leaving way too much value on the table in a game where many people are playing face-up.

Of course, in this particular hand, it leaves us in a rather unpleasant spot, but weighing that so heavily seems like posthoc analysis.

my style is to check the flop and see what happens. its awfully close though and i doubt anyone can really say if betting or checking is better with any certainty.

GG if you want to open fold this i would i just rack up and not play with this stack size.

preflop as stupid as this sounds i open to experimenting with limping in this spot, looking to either 3 bet, call or even fold depending on what develops. i would never open fold obviously. obviously most people will disagree with limping. but thats what this forum is for.

in my experience playing even medium size pots OOP with one pair hands like this is trouble, so i'm fine with playing a tiny pot in a limped pot preflop and then going from there, or collecting dead money by limp 3betting. and i can even fold if a nitty old man type (like me) raises behind.

If I expect myself to be ++EV in the game at this stack size (which I mostly always do), how in the world can this thinking be correct? You could literally fold 100% of hands in EP (including AA, not that I would ever recommend that) and still be +EV overall for the game.

FWIW, I definitely won't take a hardline on any route with AQo in EP. There's likely lots of different ways to play with lots of "it depends".

GcluelessNLnoobG

you suck at deepstack. you said it yourself. 200BB is already too deep to be thinking about how to SPR all in with one pair hands.

You got too many callers, so you probably raised too small. Seems like this is a table where you need to go bigger pre, maybe $25-$30. I know it sounds ridiculous to raise 10x in a 1/3, but I do it all the time and still get 1-2 callers (which is what I want). Imagine how much more comfortable you'd feel betting this flop HU or with just two behind than multiway.

I'd also consider folding this full ring this early. Wouldn't be terrible.

Definitely check/calling this flop. Not looking to play a big pot with just top pair on a board where someone may have flopped the joint, 2p, a set, or a massive draw. Ideally the flop checks through and we can bet about $50 on safe turns, or we bink a K.

Does position matter in deepstack?

GI'mallowedtowaituntilI'mposition,right?G

Curious about results.

Not disagreeing with anybody, but out of curiosity, when we check this hand against a bunch of loose passive villains, what range are we hoping to check call against? If they’re loose passive, wouldn’t we expect their betting range on this flop multiway to be stronger than AQ?

^I WILL disagree with people itt, this flop is a clear bet.
We can get called by worse Ax, FD's, Jx, Tx, we can protect/fold out equity, define ranges, etc. Vs a bunch of sharks or nits we can x/call here sometimes, but vs these opponents checking seems ridiculous. Not to mention that steezystolz is right, we aren't doing that well vs their betting ranges anyway.

The preflop discussion is even more ridiculous imo. If 4 opponents are calling your 6x raise from UTG1, most of them are making a massive equity mistake, most of which will benefit you. If you're uncomfortable playing MW oop, just raise bigger.

not sure what your point is, sounds like you're trying to just be a smartass

My point is that you're advocating that anyone considering folding ~marginalish troublesome hands in EP deep should rack up from the table (which I'm assuming means you think they can't possibly be profitable at this table). We can still be profitable at this table even playing super nit stupid tight in EP (especially considering most profits come from playing in position).

GI'llletothersdecidewhothesmartassisG

why would someone who 1) sucks at deepstack and 2) has no interest in improving his deepstack play, keep playing deepstack? that was my point.

In these super loose and short-stacked games, when flops are consistently going 5+ ways you need to experiment with raise sizing. Your edge is super thin/nonexistent in this game.

If raising to 30 doesn't work, try 35...and if that still doesn't work then consider a balanced limp-reraising range. Hands like offsuit Broadways fit nicely in that range.

Against more aggressive players, maybe I would take a more passive approach. But I decided to charge the loose/passives for fd's, Ax and sized down to hopefully get calls from a wider range

Flop AJT ($100)
V1 checks, Hero bets $50, V2,V3 and V4 call, V1 folds

Turn 3 ($300)
Hero ??

Three callers is close to the nut low result. Why checking flop was probably better. If you bet again, you may have to make a decision for your whole stack by the river with a marginal holding. And the turn did nothing to improve your hand. Check and hope to get to showdown cheaply unless you improve.