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1/3 PAHWM AQo 200bb+ deep 1/3 PAHWM AQo 200bb+ deep

09-19-2018 , 05:30 PM
Never a bad result to take the pot down pre but playing a flop in position with a strong hand vs. a weaker range is also not bad.
1/3 PAHWM AQo 200bb+ deep Quote
09-20-2018 , 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KID777777
Onto my preflop action
V1 opens $15 UTG+2, V2 (CO) calls, short stack(BTN) calls, V3(SB) calls,
H(BB) 3b to $100, UTG+2, V2, short stack folds, V3(SB) calls.

Flop J53 ($245)
V3 checks, Hero??
V3 checks, Hero bets $100, V calls

Turn T ($445)
V3 checks, Hero?
1/3 PAHWM AQo 200bb+ deep Quote
09-20-2018 , 01:27 PM
So V has 535 behind on the flop and 435 behind going to the turn?

I just move in at this point. It's a pot sized bet. You've got NFD and gutshot to the straight. There's no hand he can have that you don't have significant outs against. You have fold equity against hands as strong as sets at this point.

You having Ac and the turn being Tc actually doesn't leave that many flushes villain can have.

You have 28% equity vs QJs KJs AJ QQ KK TT JJ KQcc K9cc 98cc 97cc 87cc 76cc. That's 38 combos.

Say he folds the one-pair hands without a high club: That's 18 combos in the muck and you have 23% equity against his continue range.

You'll be betting pot to win pot so need V to fold half the time to break-even on your shove. You're nearly there if he folds as above plus you win his whole stack nearly a quarter the time he does call.

The less he folds to the shove the more equity you have against his continue range and vice versa. It's swings and roundabouts. At this point I don't think there's really anything he can do to make your shove with this particular hand much worse than break-even and he can easily mistakenly over-call or over-fold and push you well info +EV.
1/3 PAHWM AQo 200bb+ deep Quote
09-20-2018 , 02:11 PM
Ragequit99: "You have 28% equity vs QJs KJs AJ QQ KK TT JJ KQcc K9cc 98cc 97cc 87cc 76cc. That's 38 combos."

Let's also remember that V called $100 preflop. Is he spewy enough to do this with a suited connected or something like KJ or K9cc - even against an aggressive player? If he's like most Vs in my card room, the answer is no.

I think his most likely holdings at this point are KQcc, AJ, JJ, and QQ (which we block). There is only one combo of KQcc and many more of the others so he's weighted towards 1p hands which shrivel up ott when the flush hits. Also consider whether V would just call with a set otf with the flush draw out there. Probably not, so you can discount sets too.

I guess shoving versus checking for a free card boils down to: does V fold AJ here?
1/3 PAHWM AQo 200bb+ deep Quote
09-20-2018 , 02:58 PM
Fair points Dumbo but also consider hero currently has poor image and villain has commented to the effect that he thinks Hero was FOS in previous hand. I think he can be calling preflop wider than expected and take some more passive lines to catch hero's bluffs postflop.

Obviously that last sentence implies this is a bad spot to bluff and we should take free card but...

- V might be happy to call down one or two modest bets but be put in a tough spot by a decision for nearly 150bb.

- we're mostly going to miss the river and if we check turn all hope of securing a fold is likely gone AND I think we're losing at showdown unimproved.

I'll add I advocated a passive line preflop and on flop due to hero's image. It's just that now we've taken the aggro route I feel this is one of our best semibluffing hands to shove with and we may as well play the hand out the way we started it.

(Note that because hero is aware his image is poor he's not squeezing here as wide as he normally might so his turn semi-bluffs are going to be listed to AcQx and AcKx. I haven't checked combos of bluffs to value so maybe I'm too wide here though....)
1/3 PAHWM AQo 200bb+ deep Quote
09-20-2018 , 04:06 PM
ALLIN on this turn, unfortunately this turn card has sealed your fate OP, you are going to either win or lose a stack here.

I expect this to get folds from all his 44-99 (non-set ofc), 5x and his floats but I expect all his TP+ hands to come along for the ride. The good news is that you have a lot of equity vs this range and also still get a decent amount of folds of the weaker hands that still have you beat.

Bonus: I might be wrong and he mucks some of his J's in which case you have a lot more FE than I perceive.

DT: V is not going to raise a set on the flop vs an aggressive player. And the one-pair hands that really shrivel up are his midpairs which most likely call the $100 pf raise and flop bet. An aggressive player isn't going to get much credit for a flush in a 3bet pot, it's very hard to have a flush m8 so I doubt V (esp since he thinks H is fos) will ever fold a J and much less AJ. (And his range is not going to be as nitty as you think)
1/3 PAHWM AQo 200bb+ deep Quote
09-20-2018 , 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdestiny
I am raising AQo for value. And this makes no sense to me whatsoever ImAllInNow. If we have a very nitty image we are not going to get a lot of action from worse hands when we 3bet AK/AQo hands, we are only most likely getting action from better hands. When we have a very loose or fos image, we will get plenty of action from worse hands when we raise 'big unsuited' cards and have a much better chance at stacking a player with a dominated hand as they will call off their stack with top-pair or potentially less.
AQ/AK goes up significantly in value if your opponent is going to fold small overpairs or top pair/middle pair fearing you have an overpair. They're much harder hands to play when your opponents are sticky with any pair. I think that's much more important than whether or not you get people with dominated hands to call preflop.

AA/KK on the other hand, go up significantly in value when people will pay off big bets with top/middle pair and small overpairs.
1/3 PAHWM AQo 200bb+ deep Quote
09-20-2018 , 06:49 PM
Why does specifically AQ/AK go up in value if your opponent is going to fold small overpairs or top pair/middle pair fearing you have an overpair? You could have any two cards. In fact, AK/AQ have decent showdown value so I would much rather use hands without showdown value but similar high-card value.

And the hands aren't that hard to play IMO, especially in position, just play your range. Just because you have these hands does not mean you have to barrel off on all flops cos that's how you would play your AA/KK in a specific spot. My point being that AQ and AK will be a lot more dangerous in the hands of a LAG as you are much more likely to play a big pot vs dominated hands, even if the nit will get away with bluffing 99 off a flop containing one overcard the few times he 3bets and goes to the flop.

Also where do you find these opponents that are going to fold overpairs/ top pairs?
1/3 PAHWM AQo 200bb+ deep Quote
09-20-2018 , 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdestiny
Also where do you find these opponents that are going to fold overpairs/ top pairs?
I don't because I don't have a nitty image.
1/3 PAHWM AQo 200bb+ deep Quote
09-20-2018 , 11:47 PM
Considering we block good Jx and flush draws this is a flop where our opponent will fold a lot and we have reasonable equity against his continue range so I continue for a small sizing on flop and giving up on non-A/K/Q/club turns. Continuing on this turn.

If we are against an agro opponent then checking flop is reasonable.

Last edited by Badreg2017; 09-20-2018 at 11:57 PM.
1/3 PAHWM AQo 200bb+ deep Quote
09-23-2018 , 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KID777777
V3 checks, Hero bets $100, V calls

Turn T ($445)
V3 checks, Hero?
V3 checks, Hero bets $200, V3 jams $425 total, Hero?

Easy call??
But should of my dbl barrel sizing been PSB rather than $200, as I'm not sure firing blank rivers will be profitable
1/3 PAHWM AQo 200bb+ deep Quote
09-24-2018 , 12:22 PM
pre is mostly irrelevant, sizing could be better, there isn't a wrong answer besides folding, for meta game it's probably way better to 3bet, it might be better to have this hand percieved as high up in your 3bet range rather than being a hand to call with

flop is somewhat relevant but not really, hard to say if this is a better c-bet than one without the clubs but betting or not betting are about the same either way so it's not a spot that matters a whole lot

turn is the spot where the money is made, could be a check vs some villains and a bet vs others, it's not a percieved board changing card so we don't get a lot enough folds from most villains (just dont' think they fold the Tc enough), also we have some image issues so checking back might be nice

honestly i don't think the first 2 streets are an issue, there isn't really anything to debate because there's no wrong answer.
1/3 PAHWM AQo 200bb+ deep Quote
09-24-2018 , 02:37 PM
Yeah you should have bet ALLIN.
And snapcall him like you have the nuts. Firing a blank river is probably not going to get the job done with whats left to play for. Firing a non-blank river also probably getting snapped.
1/3 PAHWM AQo 200bb+ deep Quote
10-17-2018 , 05:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KID777777
V3 checks, Hero bets $200, V3 jams $425 total, Hero?

Easy call??
But should of my dbl barrel sizing been PSB rather than $200, as I'm not sure firing blank rivers will be profitable
Results
I take a little while and then call off. River bricks and V asks if I have overpair and shows down pocket 8s to scoop (i don't think there was even a club!?)
Obviously decided to play back given my previous history with V but I was pretty shocked tbh
1/3 PAHWM AQo 200bb+ deep Quote

      
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