Easy fold pre for me but i know an iso raise is coming lol.

Ap fold flop you’re at the bottom of your range and you have low equity

If the players on your left are nits then raise pre to $20-25. If they are loose I limp behind or fold.

If we somehow misread our hand and had 6h5s then I would raise but this is just too weak to continue with...

Is this a reverse image post pahwm? Shouldn't even be allowed to stay open. In before 200 posts of random hypotheticals and multi spewed streets. Anything beyond pre as played is very unnecessary button clicking. Gonna be similar to that other bud with the limp raise 97s that worked out.

why we should fold:
- we are lucky to have 4 outs vs his hand, vs his range we probably have like 1.5 outs on average.
- we have like 752 better hands in our range.*
- we block none of his value range

why we should call/raise:
- we are in position
- uuuhm i guess we block none of his bluffs
- (puts on Tony G accent) we got a lot of HEART!!

Obvious fold is obvious.

Fold ore


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If you're going to play, then raise. But you should fold when weak/tight players start donking at you. You're going to spend a lot of money trying to win that $65.

FWIW, I think the "we have a million better hands in our range" argument is flawed if we are playing a maximally exploitative strategy. Here my pot equity obviously sucks, but if I think floating is +EV I can basically continue with my entire range to either suck out or make a play on the turn/river.

---------

Villain (MP): 50s white guy, passive ($500)
Hero (HJ): late 20s Asian guy, aggressive winning image, has been running over the mostly weak tight table by raising vs limpers and either taking it down pre or seeing a heads up/3 way pot cbetting/delayed cbetting and taking it down; also has shown big winning hands in big pots (covers)

Three limpers including villain in MP to hero. The limpers are weak tight and limp fold a ton, although villain is a little stickier. Hero looks down at 65 in the HJ. Hero raises to $20. Only villain calls.

Flop: A84 ($45)

Villain instantly leads $20. Hero calls.

Turn: Q ($85)

Villain very quickly bets $25. Hero ???

Then what’s the point of the thread? You don’t want math advice and you don’t need reads advice bc you already have it. You have a solid read and you’ve already identified the maximally exploitive Line. Won’t sure hwhat you’re looking for

Good question. I have my reads yes, but my assumptions may be flawed. If they are, the math behind "I'm risking X to win Y so he needs to fold Z combos" is meaningless because the ranges will be wrong. Also I'm curious how other people would approach this hand. For example venice said raise or fold flop, which I disagree with but find interesting and am curious about his reasoning.

I’m pretty shocked to see all the advocates for folding preflop. I think it’s a clear vpipsituation. And that’s coming from a guy most of you would
Consider a nit. The rest of the hand is ridiculously simple. Anything other than folding is beyond fancy play and/or trying to justify some weird laggy image in places it doesn’t belong.

Why you would even think this is a good opportunity to float is beyond me. Even while disregarding our hand, villain theoretically is uncapped, and even the middle of his range and most of his bluffs (K) will have trouble folding.

I assume a raise is coming, which seems to be the whole point of this thread.

If we are going to rep a flush, id really prefer a raise to 60 on the flop as we would with most of our strong flushes. Well, i'd prefer a fold on the flop, but it seems we are past that stage .

Obviously his sizing is a little wack, but this guy has still double donked into the preflop raiser, and that deserves a decent amount of respect, imo. I fold again on the turn. It will most likely require a fairly massive turn raise (since the initial bet is so small) and obviously a follow up on the river if we get a call; are we prepared for that?

GcluelessNLnoobG

This is by far the best post in the thread.

I used to default to raising preflop but now I'd limp behind. I think I was just iso'ing way too much in these spots. It's pretty close though and I don't mind a raise. Folding is crazy.

Flop is a trivially easy fold.

Turn and beyond, who knows, this hand is completely off the rails once we VPIP flop, but I assume we should do a lot of folding so as not to compound previous mistakes.

This hand makes me sad.

Fold at every decision point postflop.

And that's coming from someone who hates folding. Not sure what you're going for here, OP.

in before.. "but lol live read"

but lol live read



This is how I'm ranging villain on the turn. At the time I assumed his range was top pair heavy but now we can math that assumption out. I let him lead with his flushes/sets 25% of the time and his top pair/two pairs 75% of the time as well as all his offsuit broadway hands that are one card flush draws. I'm assuming he would raise TT+ AQ+ AJs instead of overlimping. I didn't even include PPs which would make his range even weaker. Look at how much of his range is just top pair! A raise is gonna take it down way more than the breakeven % imo. Calling is obviously terrible. And folding...well, we're here to explore some non-traditional plays and shut down these "FPS" accusations with math.

If anyone disagrees with my assumptions, I can play around with the frequencies and probably still arrive at that conclusion.

I like floating and trying to steal here a lot more if we have a tight image. Once this guy starts taking the lead I doubt he wants to give up the pot to you the majority of the time.

Hero doesn't have a tight image.

Going back to the flop, there are lots of good reasons for folding. We don't have much and even our gutshot only has 3 clean outs. The villain has something or he wouldn't have donked out. Finally, Doyle Brunson pointed out years ago that that you want to push players just up to the point where they decide to fight back. Then you let them win a small one. You push them too far and they end playing much more effectively against you. Pot is small, now is a good time to let them win one. I know the cliche is that the fish don't react. If you really believe that, raise pf 10 times in a row. I'll guarantee a couple of people will adjust on you.

If you decide to play, you want maximum leverage which is why you raise on the flop. They have to weigh not only the raise, but also the turn and river bets to come. The villain's range is capped since if he had the nuts, he would have slow played it. Hard to play for stacks with TP.

Calling is the worst option. You don't know if a card will come on the turn which will strengthen the villain's hand and make your turn raise bluff spew.

Ive tried playing using tactics like these endless times, one day you just realize its all around bad. When you bink a 7 in such a spot one day and dump a few hundred blinds, you may understand why. I dont think you will understand from math or from 2+2. Youre the type of OP who needs to walk the suffering himself

I snap fold this flop. Obviously you can do all sorts of other moves that may or may not work, but the whole point of being a good poker player is to know when to pick a better spot.

I think a read that villain obviously doesn't have a flush because he insta-bets is dangerous. The worst thing you can do in poker is completely rule out any hand without a huge amount of history with your opponent.

This. Feel like this PAHWM is a thinly veiled "look at me run over this guy" brag. This hand is a pretty obvious fold to the donk and the only counterargument is LRR explaining "yes, but I soul read him for x". If you found a game where you can just constantly rep the nuts and people fold, great, but it has very little strategic relevance.

It does make me realise that I should incorporate donks with strong hands into my anti-LAG game though, since they invariably treat it like someone took off a glove and slapped them across the face with it.

Yeah, I'm really losing confidence that these posts are being made in good faith.

It's a bummer because this forum is good and there are some real quality responses to every hand.

Yeah but it has started a discussion about when to consider running over someone. The leak H is trying to exploit is that V can be pushed of mediocre hands or worse too frequently.