V1 (MP): 30 ish brown guy, super loose, raises a lot pre, and doesn't like to fold post ($250)
V2 (HJ): 50 ish Asian guy, super loose pre and doesn't like to fold post ($200)
V3 (SB): middle aged black woman, tight passive ($250)
Hero (CO): late 20s Asian guy, TAG image, not that it matters much here (covers)

V1 and V2 limp. Hero tries to make it $23 in the CO (could go bigger?) with KK but is short a red chip and the raise is $18. Villains call.

Flop: Q87 ($70)

V3 checks. V1 leads $30. V2 calls. V3 has six red chips in one hand and her phone in the other hand. Hero ???

This looks like a standard "let's find out where I'm at bet". I definitely have the best hand right now. There's $130 in the pot and roughly $200 effective behind. Problem with just shoving is that V1 probably has QT at best. Problem with raising is the awkward stack sizes. I'd have to shove any river when checked to.

In my experience v1's donkbet is indicative of a weak TP or kinda blockbet with a draw. V2 could also likely have a draw or TP and seeing that v3 also wants to call you have for sure the best hand at the moment. I think its best to shove given the awkward stack sizes and that your black kings are very vulnerable on this board against 3 opponents.
I think there is no other move than gii.
Maybe minraising to 60-70, hope for a brick ott and move in but this seems like a bad idea

I would choose between raise to $130... and call the $30 and shove any non heart non Q turn, assuming V1 bets again. I think both have merits. Based on your villain descriptions, I'm going with the raise.

pump jam. Lots of bad turn cards and from your description it doesnt seem crazy to assume that they will call with worse.

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Jam

Against super loose players I easily go $25 - $30 preflop to setup trivial postflop stack offs on non horrendous boards.

For better or worse and with the read that the tight person is just going to call and that the other guys are nonfoldy and active and the pot now very big (where any raise commits us anyways) and the board being drawy, I think I just bite my lip and jam.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I would Jammed it. With players like that are going to call regardless with draws if that's the type of player they are. No Reason to give them a free card and hit it. At least this way they will have to pay for it, and you get it in with the best hand. From the sounds of it, those players will call with a flush draw, and maybe the QT. Which if all works out and they miss their draws, your going to win a pretty big pot :P Best to build it up when you know you are ahead.

Too many draws for me to get greedy with a flat here, I like the Mike $130 bet but jam is fine...

If you going to commit the 1/2 of your stack, and know that your not going anywhere on the turn, might as well shove. If they are going to call the 130 with draws, they are going to call 200 as well. I guess you can play scared, but the best move is to put it all in, instead of giving yourself the decision on the turn if a heart hits, put it on them on the flop. If they are willing to call with draws, that's good for you because in the long run you will win those hands more often than not.... Even if it doesn't feel that way sometimes.

Since they’re fish and can’t get away from their hands and we’re good players who can get away from a Q or heart turn, I’m surprised no ones saying min raise?

I agree with no merci that if they call 130 they would call 200 but I’m not sure they’d call 200.

Assuming we get 1-2 callers of 60 though the pot is 250 on the turn and they certainly could call a shove on the turn now that they feel they’ve “committed” themselves. Unless we’re giving them an Uber draw like 9Th, we can pretty much fold any turn that hurts us IF they shove, but that turn falls only 24-30% of the time. The other 70%+ we might felt two people.

Normally I’m risk/draw adverse, but the players as described seem like they’d fold to $200 (yeah we win risk free) but might come along $100 at a time (and we win a $600 pot 70%)

Is this a crazy way to think given this board/hand/players?

fist pump all in

I like a dumb small raise here. Of course jam is fine, but it depends on whether QJ is going to find a fold

I think that only the V3 will fold since she is tight and passive unless she flopped trips. As for the other two, I feel like since they don't like to fold post flop that they are more willing to call with draws to suck out on someone. I know it may seem like a big play, but really with the effective stacks and what is in the pot already, he may get 1 caller or maybe 2. I think even a Q high flush draw would call here. There are just some bad players at these stakes.

A minraise will likely offer everyone pretty fantastic 8+:1 (as it looks like the tight player has calling chips and will call and this will obviously get everyone else to call), which means everyone has pretty much the correct odds to call with almost anything. Pretty craptastic play in a huge pot especially if we feel committed, imo (heck, me might not even be able to fold a bad turn card with only ~1/2 PSB left).

GcluelessNLnoobG

Since I forgot to clarify in my OP, a flat is out of the question vs these villains. Definitely raising, just a question of small raise and GII and turn assuming I don't get shoved into on like T or just GII now.

No that's a very good way to think of it. If I go 90 and V1 and V2 call, pot will be 350 with 140 behind. If they make their draw or two pair they will probably not hesitate to let me know otherwise I'm gonna be shoving as a huge favourite in a bigger pot. If I shove I probably just win the 130 in the pot currently, which isn't a horrible result since it'll be uncontested.

Against two guys who are both interested in the pot and described as "super loose and don't like to fold postflop" and both whom don't have much more than a PSB left remaining, I'd expect to get gambool gambool action quite a lot (especially against draws, but sometimes against TP), no?

GcluelesslooseactionnoobG

LOL

Unless this is the best 1/2 game in history, shoving $250 effective over a $30 bet is just pretty stupid. You're just begging for them to fold everything but a set or 87. Shoving all your chips in because "I just want to take it down now" before the flush draw hits is a massive leak. Only serious beginners and super old guys who never adjusted from the game they played 15 years ago still do that.

I mean if they will call $250 with a draw go for it, but theres a difference between "doesnt like to fold post flop" and "complete idiot who will call off 100-120+BBs with a draw".

Well, the initial $30 bet is less than a 1/2 PSB, and when it gets to us the pot is a rather huge $130, with the remaining stacks just $150 and $200, and both guys don't like to fold. Heck, we're actually barely pricing out a flush draw.

Gshovingisfine,imoG

That's what I was thinking, effective stacks are only ranging from 200-250. I've seen people call for more with just a Q high flush draw at these stacks. If they weren't fish, of course you are going to make a play.

Definitely raise to make sure we get max value. If they are folding to a raise now they probably weren’t going to pay us off later. I would 4x it to $120 and then jam almost every turn.

The smaller sizing isn’t to target draws, it’s to target the Qc which we have drawing very thin.

All in.

I make it $95 to induce and call off mostly unless there are multiple all-ins in front. My guess is V3 will fold and the other two will call.

I agree with Mike...shoving here is bad. WA/WB spot....only better will continue and we fold out all hands that we could potentially get some value from.

This is not remotely a WA/WB spot. There are easily worse hands that could consider themselves best (TP) plus there are draws plus we're up against two guys who don't like to fold (and could easily gambol it up even knowing they are currently behind).

GimoG

Not that call off there aren't. SO when called, we are in deep doo doo.