Another one of these f**ked spots showed up:

MP is somewhat loose and somewhat aggro, but not spewy. $410 stack.

SB is a complete fish. $110 stack.

MP opens $15
Hero 3bets $50 BTN with Qs Qd
SB cold calls $50
MP calls $50

Flop ($138, 3ways) is 7s 5h 4s

SB checks
MP donk jams $360
Hero ???

For reference, I faced a somewhat similar spot about a week ago, but against a different villain:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...0-pot-1725129/

For starters, maybe you could provide us with some more in depth reads or profile on MP? So that we have som more valuable info to work with.

My first instinct is to call here,especially when we factor in your aggressive/spewy image.

KK/AA is likely not in his range here, he would surely 4 bet it pre after you 3 bet and SB cold call. At least those hands is heavily discounted, so i would proceed as we have the nut overpair here.

Based on my experience this is 1010-JJ or strong flushdraws a big portion of the time that is just trying to end the hand on the flop and avoiding anymore difficult decisions.

I've only played with villain for about 3hrs. It's hard to categorise him because sometimes he plays like a solid TAG but other times he plays like a loose-passive calling station. It's weird.

So I've seen him 3bet squeeze to $60 pre with AQo before after a $15 raise and a caller, which I thought made him appear as a competent TAG. He also did a lot of folding preflop.

But then I've seen other hands he can be very stationy postflop. I saw him make a pretty horrendous calldown against a loose-passive player, which made me think that this guy was a fish.

I've never seen him donk before this, nor have I seen him overbet before this.

Okay, so this is at least some piece of valuable information-even though its not a overbet donk situation of course. It tells us that he is at least capable of aggressive moves with less than nutted starting hands. Important principle when trying to range this guy, and land on a decision.

I would think that he have lots of AJss,AKss,KJss in his range with this move. Not folding here, as i think we pretty much crushes his range of hands that he plays like this. If he happend to flop a set, and then proceed to donk jam into an uncapped 3 bettor on the button that is gonna C-bet a huge percentage of the time netting him alot more money in the pot-i would pay the guy his money.

could go ether way - calling and folding both fine depending on your read. Hard to tell from such a vague description.

I'd expect to be ahead around 2/3 of the time. Going to lose some, but this is a +EV call.

Do you think that the Qs blocker has much relevance here? Is it a close enough spot that we could call with QQ (no spade) but fold with QQsx?

Looks like a call to me.

I've seen too many low stakes live players overplay hands when they think they are probably ahead but are terrified of getting sucked out on. In other words, I'd expect this to be 99-JJ a lot. Yes, sometimes we'll run into a set or 86s but those aren't a ton of combos and those hands may go for a c/r. When also considering the possibility of him doing this with a flush draw I don't think I can fold QQ.

I dont think so, even though QQ without Qs blocker makes it an even easier call of course.

Sorry you ran into it ( i guess thats why this is a thread), but i still cant see how this is not a call all things considered.

Results:

these spots are annoying bc one would think, " if they have a value hand why would they shove?" ; but these players don't think like that

Yeah I learnt that the hard way when I called a $330 jam into a $150 pot with JJ on a 622 board and got shown A2o...

That experience gave me "Monsters under the bed syndrome" and that's why I folded this time.

Not much else to say but this ^

When you say "ahead", do you mean pretty much a 50/50 flip against a hand like ATss?

Because if that's the case - if we're flipping 2/3rds of the time and pretty much drawing dead the other 1/3rd of the time - then shouldn't that be a fold?

It looks like one of those "slightly ahead or way behind" spots to me.

If we're 3betting then I'd make it like $65 to offer poorer setmining odds with these stacks. I also don't hate flatting to invite the shortstack fish in the SB along (which we're cool with, although he came along anyways lol).

Our preflop 3bet with these stacks committed ourselves on non-A/K flops, imo. Board is super drawy so he could easily be shoving a good draw flexing his FE, he could be value jamming worse (JJ-), and most people don't want to scare off their opponents when they flop a set (although admittedly on a drawy board like this some will reasons pot-is-big-enough and jam anyways). I'm calling.

ETA: Regarding slightly-ahead-versus-way-behind, that's probably kinda mostly true (except in cases where we're crushing JJ or whatever), but I'm guessing combowise there are far more slightly-ahead cases than way-behind.

GcluelessNLnoobG