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Old 03-23-2019, 04:07 PM   #1
aisrael01
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1/3 -- overpair against an uberlag

Villain is a YWG, clearly smart. Seems like he's read a good deal of poker theory -- however, based on what I've seen of him play, he's overbluffing a ton. He seems to have a reasonable bluffing frequency on the flop, but the issue is that he rarely gives up any of those bluffs on the turn/river, so by the time he gets to the river he's often FOS. I think he's spewy, but I'm not sure how spewy. Like, I've seen him dump multiple buy-ins trying to run over players who call him down light. But normally he does try to pick his spots to run these huge bluffs, and he is sometimes successful. When he's running hot, this guy is very dangerous. He was sitting on a stack of 3000 BBs at 1/3 a few weeks back.

Hero is YWG viewed by Villain as competent. I have been running very well and have a good table image.

Hero's stack is 1800 and covers the table. Villain is constantly topping off to match Hero, now at 1500.

OTTH:

Hero makes it 20 in UTG+1 with 99, MP calls, Villain completes in the BB (he is very wide here, maybe 30-35% of hands).

Flop: 466 ($60)

Villain checks, Hero bets 35, MP folds, Villain raises to 110, Hero calls.

Turn: 8 ($280)

Villain bets $280.

This is probably the worst card in the deck, with the most likely straight coming in and 68s boating up -- I think Villain might even have all offsuit combos of 57 here. OTOH any 9-A on the turn is good for our range and we can certainly continue with overpairs some fraction of the time.

It feels dirty to fold 90% of our range against a player who recognizes how bad this card is for us, but is that the right course of action? Just wait for a better spot? If we're instamucking 99, I assume we're also instamucking AA. Is that fine?

Last edited by aisrael01; 03-23-2019 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 03-23-2019, 09:42 PM   #2
floppedquadjokers
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Re: 1/3 -- overpair against an uberlag

Does villain always use these gigantic size bets because they seem a bit suspicious. Unless hes always doing it then i guess its normal

Villain bets pot + $20 on the flop check-raise and pot size on the turn. The sizes seem more to try to get you out of the pot instead of trying to go for value from an overpair type hand
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Old 03-23-2019, 11:20 PM   #3
aisrael01
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Re: 1/3 -- overpair against an uberlag

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Originally Posted by floppedquadjokers View Post
Does villain always use these gigantic size bets because they seem a bit suspicious. Unless hes always doing it then i guess its normal

Villain bets pot + $20 on the flop check-raise and pot size on the turn. The sizes seem more to try to get you out of the pot instead of trying to go for value from an overpair type hand
I don't know if there's any thought process to it. But he's the most aggressive player at the table and generally likes to apply a lot of pressure. If he can recognize that he has a range advantage on this flop, then it is to his benefit to use a large sizing and put maximum pressure on my overpairs.
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Old 03-24-2019, 12:07 AM   #4
browni3141
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Re: 1/3 -- overpair against an uberlag

It's obviously bad to fold 90% of your range against an aggressive player in a good perceived bluff spot. Think about your range and decide on roughly 50% to continue with based on blockers/river playability. AA is obviously better than 99 as it just has more equity, although I would have checked flop with AA.

If you really think he's never giving up any bluffs then close your eyes and call down 100% of your range.
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Old 03-24-2019, 03:45 AM   #5
aisrael01
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Re: 1/3 -- overpair against an uberlag

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Originally Posted by browni3141 View Post
It's obviously bad to fold 90% of your range against an aggressive player in a good perceived bluff spot. Think about your range and decide on roughly 50% to continue with based on blockers/river playability. AA is obviously better than 99 as it just has more equity, although I would have checked flop with AA.

If you really think he's never giving up any bluffs then close your eyes and call down 100% of your range.
It's not that I don't think he's ever giving up any bluffs. He might check raise the flop as a bluff with a bdfd or random air, but I'm not sure how often he would shut down those hands on the turn. After the 9 comes, he doesn't have that many semibluffs remaining. He has a ton of value: 64,65,76,86,75,96s,A6s,maybe K6s. For semibluffs I can give him 53,32s,78.

If I assume he's triple barreling with a bunch of random air then I guess I need to pick hands to call down with. But how do we pick those hands? I need to fold half my overpairs on the turn and another half on the river (assuming another pot sized bet). Should we call with 77,99, KK, AA (and obviously 88, and 76s/65s if I open those) on the turn for the blocker effects? Then call with AA and 77 on the river? Or is it too dangerous to use 77 in case he's bluffing with overcards or turning an 8 into a bluff? Maybe it's better to just go with a linear range of JJ-AA on turn and KK-AA on river?

Last edited by aisrael01; 03-24-2019 at 03:50 AM.
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Old 03-24-2019, 02:37 PM   #6
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Re: 1/3 -- overpair against an uberlag

First of all I'm not sure why he is topping off to match you when you have position on him if you're at all competent. This isn't the mark of a good poker player imo.

I probably check flop against this spewy opponent. This is the kind of stuff they do on 466r flop so if we are uncomfortable letting him spaz it up then it's best to pot control it right away.

To answer your next question when he x/r 466 and the 8 comes he prob isn't giving up any of his bluffs at this juncture.
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Old 03-24-2019, 03:12 PM   #7
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Re: 1/3 -- overpair against an uberlag

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First of all I'm not sure why he is topping off to match you when you have position on him if you're at all competent. This isn't the mark of a good poker player imo.
Huh?

Maybe he views hero as a spot.
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Old 03-24-2019, 03:14 PM   #8
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Re: 1/3 -- overpair against an uberlag

Don’t like bet call flop at all. You know you’re about to get toyed with and probably not prepared to call down 99, so find another line.
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Old 03-24-2019, 03:31 PM   #9
MogFish
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Re: 1/3 -- overpair against an uberlag

Iím pretty torn about the flop bet here actually. Board is super dry (and generally bad-neutral for our range) but your exact hand still benefits a lot by folding out over cards. I guess against a LAG like the described V I shy away from cbetting this board because it is one that he will attack often. If he does raise our cbet, we really donít like any turns/rivers and we are probably forced to fold expecting V to continue barreling most runouts as you say. That said, Iím fine with a cbet if we plan to fold to a raise. AP fold turn.


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Old 03-24-2019, 03:53 PM   #10
acepokerblog
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Re: 1/3 -- overpair against an uberlag

Your read is that he might check-raise the flop with random air. Then, he likes to bluff on turn and river. You have situation with 90% of your range.

Why not put the pressure back on him on the flop?

What about reraising the flop like $500 to let him know you're not going anywhere and to punish him for being too loose on the flop?

That said, if you're not sure how spewy he is, I would check back flops like this.
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Old 03-24-2019, 09:00 PM   #11
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Re: 1/3 -- overpair against an uberlag

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Originally Posted by Amanaplan View Post
Huh?

Maybe he views hero as a spot.
Not really my style to voluntarily be 500bb deep oop. It would take a very special player for me to do this and I doubt anyone who posts hands on 2+2 fits this description. Why top off trying to stack someone competent to your left?
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Old 03-24-2019, 09:43 PM   #12
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Re: 1/3 -- overpair against an uberlag

doesnt sound from the first post that villain knows him very well so should not know that he is competent. although the times ive played in smaller no limit games almost all the players tell the table whatever they know and how and why they played a hand. not too hard to find a way to break a player if the hand comes down.
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Old 03-24-2019, 09:45 PM   #13
Ray Zee
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Re: 1/3 -- overpair against an uberlag

generally against big bet bluffers i am keeping the pot smaller by not betting and using the smaller pot to get a feel if i have him or not.
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Old 03-24-2019, 09:54 PM   #14
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Re: 1/3 -- overpair against an uberlag

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Originally Posted by Ray Zee View Post
generally against big bet bluffers i am keeping the pot smaller by not betting and using the smaller pot to get a feel if i have him or not.
Just because we are deep and villain has range advantage due to many more nut hands and is capable of big bluffs doesn't mean we shouldn't bet here. Our hand does benefit from protection, so at least a small bet is merited. It's possible we're even doing better against his flop raising range than his turn betting range on a card like a J. Personally I find it counter-intuitive, but I do believe betting is correct.
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Old 03-24-2019, 10:55 PM   #15
sabinn
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Re: 1/3 -- overpair against an uberlag

Let me ask you something, if you had 100k bankroll what would you do in this hand? That's your good decision right there, otherwise is just fear of losing too much.
Vs aggro players you need to "gamble" show them you got heart/balls and they won't mess with you.
So either find another table where the pressure is not this big, no shame in retreating and finding a better spot. Or fight the ****er, call him down light. Sure, sometimes he will show u the nuts, but if he is as aggro as you say, he will probably overbluff here and you will make big money. I would tank call turn, snap any river probably, but if you think he gives up sometimes then this maybe would be close to the bottom of your calling range so you could fold it.
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Old 03-24-2019, 10:58 PM   #16
Amanaplan
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Re: 1/3 -- overpair against an uberlag

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Originally Posted by mdelore View Post
Not really my style to voluntarily be 500bb deep oop. It would take a very special player for me to do this and I doubt anyone who posts hands on 2+2 fits this description. Why top off trying to stack someone competent to your left?
Because Iím better than them and want to be able to leverage their stack, win the max. Itís not about Ďstackingí them either, I just want all the play i can have bc thereís a greater skill edge element to be had when deep. Also, if the spot(s) are all to both our immediate right, then I want to have depth so I donít get picked on as easily/squeezed out. I can raises call far better and go from there.
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Old 03-24-2019, 11:57 PM   #17
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Re: 1/3 -- overpair against an uberlag

Flop is an ok bet, turn can fold. Bottom of our range and 99 is not as good as AA here, you block some of his bluffs with 99, esp if you have a heart. Yeah he’s crazy but if you fold 0% of your range in a spot it’s probably more likely you’re leaking money rather than exploiting someone crazy, contrary to what a lot of players think. Plus there is still one more street to play. If you want to bluff-catch extremely wide, you’re better off folding the hands that block his bluffs.

If you dont know how to react vs a raise/barrel off check flop to induce
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:17 PM   #18
gobbledygeek
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Re: 1/3 -- overpair against an uberlag

Is this the guy we want to be sitting super deep with? You should give this question some serious thought as it may actually be the only question worth considering.

I like our seat (not sitting OOP to this guy).

This deep I'm assuming we can do almost whatever we want preflop.

I don't want to risk facing a check/raise on the flop and playing a big huge bloated pot by the river with what will undoubtedly turn into like 2nd or 3rd pair by then and facing a 3rd barrel from this guy. My main goal is to get to showdown in a controlled reasonable pot. So I check the flop. Are we prepared to go to the wall with our little hand here? Cuz that's the question his flop check/raise is likely asking us, so if we're not prepared to do that, we should probably give up now.

I kinda get the feeling he was gonna PSB the turn regardless of what card it was. So with this in mind, that's why I just want to get to the turn for cheap and get to showdown.

Gplanahead,includingwhetheryoushouldevenbesittingo nthistable,imoG
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:42 PM   #19
aisrael01
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Re: 1/3 -- overpair against an uberlag

As someone suggested, Villain chose his seat because the biggest spot at the table was directly to his right. Later after the spot racked up, Villain moved to the other side of the table, 4 seats to my left. We were involved in a hand where I opened AA UTG to 20, caller in the middle, and V calls in HJ. 3 ways to a flop of 954r, I c-bet 35, call in middle, V raises to 120, I call, MP folds. Turn is a 9, I x/call a bet of 180. River is a K, I x/call a bet of 380 and I'm good -- Villain accidentally flashed a 7 when he folded, so I presume he had 87 or 76. In light of this info, it's possible that the larger sizing in the OP hand weights him more towards value. Or maybe he recognized that I have a range advantage in the second hand, so he sized down.

I agree with the advice that I should make the decision as to whether to call down with the hand on the flop and then go with it. If he's rarely giving up on his triple barrels, I should respond by having no folding range on later streets.
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Old 03-25-2019, 11:05 PM   #20
mdelore
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Re: 1/3 -- overpair against an uberlag

If the AA hand happened before the 99 hand, you can make an argument for call turn and fold river since you have a history of just calling him down. Getting snapped by AA on a paired board previously will probably loom large as he considers whether or not to bomb river.
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Old 03-26-2019, 01:08 AM   #21
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Re: 1/3 -- overpair against an uberlag

Check flop when there is some aggro spewtard who is going to blast psbs post. 99 makes a great bluff catcher versus these morons.
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