There are three hands from tonights session that I think I definitely could have played better. One in particular I think I missed a lot of value. I'm going to post them all in separate threads so nothing gets lost. All 3 involve the same 2 villains. I'd like your opinion.

Main participants:

Hero: Mid 20's white guy, seems pretty TAG, maybe even nitty tonight as I don't think I've seen so many Q5 or J5's in one session in my life. Have taken down a few pots, but nothing significant. Probably have a winning image and seem like someone who knows the game.

V1: Mid 30's white guy. Sort of drunk, but not crazy. Seems to understand the game, bet sizing, odds, etc. Doesn't limp often, but likes to throw out small bets preflop ($8-$10). Seems to be able to play post-flop, but we haven't been playing too long. He certainly understands position. He just changed seats from 4 to 3.

V2: New to the table, though I've played with him once before. Confident, but I'm not sure if he really gets the game. Limps a lot, and makes a lot of $10 bets preflop, with a lot of $10 bets on the flop and turn as well (I didn't notice this during our first hand, as he hadn't been there for an entire orbit yet. He's in hands from all over, so not a big positional player. I have seen him fold to a re-raise after one of his continuation bets.


Hand 2

Hero (~$600): UTG +1 K K , opens to $17.
MP Rando calls.
V1 (~$275): In SB, Calls.
V2 (~$275): In BB, Calls.

Flop (~$70): 5 7 8

V1: Checks.
V2: Checks.
Hero: Bets $35.
MP Rando: Folds.
V1: Thinks, raises to $120.
V2: Insta-folds.
Hero:????

This hand was a little later on, but I have seen him to a lot of limp/calls preflop just to get into the action. I have him on any suited A, 22-99, K-10+...and maybe suited connectors.

Thoughts?

Shove. If he's got a set he's got a set, but there are plenty of other over pairs, pair + OESD, flush draw combos he can make the same raise with.

Also - bet more on the flop. $35 is way too small for this wet flop. Bet $50+

Again, thanks for the reply. Bet sizing is something I obviously need to pay more attention too moving forward, and after seeing the results I think it would have won me the hand.

Results:

Agree the flop is way too small. This is the kind of flop that I would pot. I'd also GII. There are so many draws in his range

You're a very trusting guy. He tells you he has Ad8d on a flop of 8d7d5c. I would have shoved and gotten a chop with multiple 8d's exposed

Pot the flop, board is super wet so just pot flop/shove brick turn. I'm not folding vs described V at these stack sizes.

How would you size if we were planning to bet/fold here?

How about if one of them covered us?

We're never bet/folding with these stacks. If they cover us it becomes way more read dependent. Occasionally we will bet/fold the best hand but that's deep stack poker OOP.

X2

I meant if we were against different villians. Against a lot of players in my pool a raise is always going to be two pair or better in this spot.

Yup, this.

But size bigger otf and just fold to the c/r.

Will a $25 - $30 preflop raise get called at this table? If it will, I'd lean towards that preflop (where getting in 10% of our stack preflop just makes it that easier to stack off on non Ace high boards postflop since a single opponent simply won't be getting speculative hand mining odds). If table is loose and actiony, I'd limp/reraise.

This is the problem with going multiway in a raised pot with just an overpair (which is highly unlikely to improve). The pot is a huge $68, we only have $258 left, so an SPR < 4, which means that stacks can go in so simply (just 2 PSBs), and yet we gave 3 opponents 18+ implied odds preflop to hit their piece of cheese. Honestly, it's a really gross spot to be in, which is why we should attempt something different preflop, imo.

As played, I would probably just bet like you did and then fold. At the very least he should have a strong draw; he could also have a combo draw (which is doing fine against us); and we could also be drawing virtually dead. Honestly, if he does have a strong made hand, we're a little lucky he raised now, cuz otherwise we'd be in an even more difficult spot on the turn.

ETA: With an SPR < 4, the idea of simply PSB/PSB (and never folding) is definitely a route to take too. But it's definitely a high variance one, and it's also one that doesn't work too great at tables where people just pay a lot preflop to see a flop and then only get it in when they hit 2pair+ or a mega draw. If there are people at this table bad enough to get it in with just TP or just a standard draw, this route will definitely be profitable. FWIW, it's spots like these that caused me by far the most trouble last year, and I'm still trying to condition myself to just close my eyes and go with it here (which I probably should).

Gdosomethingdifferentpreflop,imoG

Same for me in my pool, which is why I think preflop sets up such a gross spot.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Then just exploit by folding. If they have no semi bluffing range than thank them for telegraphing their hand strength and move on to the next hand with your stack intact.

Obviously. But do we still pot the flop?

What I was getting at is that I think the big bet vs like $50 can induce him to just call with two pair/sets and prevent us from making an exploitive fold.

Against a player that occasionally semibluffs a combo draw when he recognizes he is getting pot committed the smaller bet might be better as well, because it reduces his bluffing frequency and allows us to make an exploitive fold if he raises. That said it does make the stack sizes less than ideal for a Turn shove.

A PSB means we have put in ~1/3 of our stack. Commitment is something we should be pondering here?

Didn't read the OP again, maybe I am just taking nonsense.