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Old 01-23-2014, 04:59 PM   #1
yellowbastard
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1-3 NLHE - A6s - Highest EV line OTT

My opponent is a very loose player that likes to gamble. I few weeks earlier I opened UTG with AA, he 3bets AI from the BTN for 100bb with JTo, I call and he stacks me when the board pairs jacks OTT. He goes too far with draws and marginal hands and seems willing to call big bets on multiple streets with marginal 4:1 against draws. He has everyone out chiped at the table. The other stacks are about 100bb.

Stacks:
Hero (BTN): $300
Villain (SB): $1500

Preflop: hero is dealt A6
2 limps, hero limps (OTB), villain (SB) calls, bb checks

Flop: (762) pot=($15)
Villain bets $15, everyone folds, hero calls $15

Turn: (762) (A) pot=($45)
Villain bets $40, hero? has $282 behind
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:10 PM   #2
sungar78
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Re: 1-3 NLHE - A6s - Highest EV line OTT

I'll start by saying I personally see myself almost never limping Axs on the button w two limpers into me.
This hand depends on what he does w missed draws. If he's an agg donk than go ahead and raise to like $90 setting the river pot up to $225 w $190 effective stacks and pick off all his river bluffs while also getting value from a bunch of smaller two pairs.
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:52 PM   #3
Dirty313
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Re: 1-3 NLHE - A6s - Highest EV line OTT

I dont mind a limp pre, this hand plays well in position and can flop extremely well

also by opening we can get 3bet off our han, opposed to limping where if the blinds raise we can call in positon.

on the flop we make a standard call with MPTK+bdfd
on the turn we have improved but i feel we are way ahead (76,88,99) or way behind (77,a7,22,66)
let him barrel river with one of those worse 2 prs or missed open ender and call.
easy game. hard to get a lot of value by raising
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:10 PM   #4
Duke0424
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Limping is definitely fine but raising pre is better

Ott I'd just flat. I don't think raising gets value from anything except 76, 98, and 54. Even then, he might fold his open enders.

My plan for the river would be to against just flat his bet or value bet like $65 if checked to us.

This seems passive but the board really doesn't contain a lot of hands we can get value from

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Old 01-23-2014, 07:16 PM   #5
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Re: 1-3 NLHE - A6s - Highest EV line OTT

I think overlimp is fine given the table. Surely, if you expect to get more than 1 caller if you raise than raising is probably bad. A lot of the value in this hand is limping in and overflushing.

You have a good enough hand to try to play for stacks. Raise to 120. If he has two pair he'll probably jam. If he has a draw he'll probably chase it. When he shows up on the river with 9 high he might hail mary jam the last 160.
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:17 PM   #6
99s
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Re: 1-3 NLHE - A6s - Highest EV line OTT

If you call the turn, I think you should be raising river for value. I'm pretty much raising turn here all the time. $120-$140.
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:50 PM   #7
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Edited out
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:40 PM   #8
InTheDark
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Re: 1-3 NLHE - A6s - Highest EV line OTT

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Originally Posted by 99s View Post
If you call the turn, I think you should be raising river for value. I'm pretty much raising turn here all the time. $120-$140.
^^^^ THIS ^^^^

Fish hate to fold. Charge.
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:05 PM   #9
Scottery
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Re: 1-3 NLHE - A6s - Highest EV line OTT

110$, but i dont mind a call vs a bluffier player
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Old 01-23-2014, 10:11 PM   #10
Dirty313
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Re: 1-3 NLHE - A6s - Highest EV line OTT

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Originally Posted by InTheDark View Post
^^^^ THIS ^^^^

Fish hate to fold. Charge.
ehhh, him double barreling on this board is pretty nutty most of the time

call and call river, unless its a 6 or ace

also if he does have an open ender i would prefer to let him bluff OTR
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:07 AM   #11
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Re: 1-3 NLHE - A6s - Highest EV line OTT

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Originally Posted by Dirty313 View Post
ehhh, him double barreling on this board is pretty nutty most of the time

call and call river, unless its a 6 or ace

also if he does have an open ender i would prefer to let him bluff OTR
I disagree we basically have bottom set. If he has A7---- oh well... I am either raising the turn or the river on safe rivers.
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Old 01-24-2014, 02:05 AM   #12
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Re: 1-3 NLHE - A6s - Highest EV line OTT

You guys are crazy for not wanting to raise turn. Have you read the player description? He's always bet/calling his OESDs and worse 2 pairs. As far as sizing goes I'd bet $120. It would be interesting if he shoved on us over our raise but we haven't gotten to that point yet.
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Old 01-24-2014, 02:18 AM   #13
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Re: 1-3 NLHE - A6s - Highest EV line OTT

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Originally Posted by daniel9861 View Post
You guys are crazy for not wanting to raise turn. Have you read the player description? He's always bet/calling his OESDs and worse 2 pairs. As far as sizing goes I'd bet $120. It would be interesting if he shoved on us over our raise but we haven't gotten to that point yet.
If he did shove it's a fist-pump, dance a little jig, drink a beer in the shower and soak in the glory that is you call.

He was SB and given player description, he can have ATC. We're dealing with 7 combos of sets and 6 combos of A7 vs 27 combos of 76/72/62/A2. Not even close to folding.
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Old 01-24-2014, 02:44 AM   #14
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Re: 1-3 NLHE - A6s - Highest EV line OTT

Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel9861 View Post
You guys are crazy for not wanting to raise turn. Have you read the player description? He's always bet/calling his OESDs and worse 2 pairs. As far as sizing goes I'd bet $120. It would be interesting if he shoved on us over our raise but we haven't gotten to that point yet.
Raising the turn would get value from those hands (OESD and lower two pairs) but would also blow him out of the hand with any number of 7x combos he might have. Calling the turn and betting the RVR might get him to look us up with 7x, and might get him to bet with a busted straight draw.
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Old 01-24-2014, 02:45 AM   #15
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Re: 1-3 NLHE - A6s - Highest EV line OTT

I feel like his most likely holdings are either OESD or top pair. There's a small chance of TPTK, but based on what you've said, he could have a lot of other 7's. He raises PF with almost any hand that beats you at this point. So, unless he has A7, you're good.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:18 PM   #16
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Re: 1-3 NLHE - A6s - Highest EV line OTT

His bet sizing on the turn makes his range more skewed toward straight draws and 2p+ than 7x.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:21 PM   #17
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We should be raising to a size in which river is less than a pot size bet.

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Old 01-24-2014, 12:31 PM   #18
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Re: 1-3 NLHE - A6s - Highest EV line OTT

i really dont mind a limp otb, if either sb or bb raise i am insta folding tho. as played i like a call otf vs said V. now on the turn i am raising this 100% bc you stated V doesnt fold draws so we want to charge him, however, i am raising fairly small here. looking to raise to 100 so we dont loose V from the bottom of his range.
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Old 02-07-2014, 05:16 PM   #19
slimshady1999
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Re: 1-3 NLHE - A6s - Highest EV line OTT

Quote:
Originally Posted by sungar78 View Post
I'll start by saying I personally see myself almost never limping Axs on the button w two limpers into me.
This hand depends on what he does w missed draws. If he's an agg donk than go ahead and raise to like $90 setting the river pot up to $225 w $190 effective stacks and pick off all his river bluffs while also getting value from a bunch of smaller two pairs.
i think sticking to only raise or fold is a mistake. i dont like limping much myself and prefer to raise, but with two limps, i think limping A8s-A2s is better. i'd iso with a hand like KJo, QJs, even JTs, but weak suited aces just dont make strong hands often enough. when you flop top pair and get action, you're often beat. flushes are too obvious too.
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Old 02-07-2014, 05:17 PM   #20
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Re: 1-3 NLHE - A6s - Highest EV line OTT

id raise turn if i think villain would call with a lot worse often. otherwise i'd just flat and let him barrel off.
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:25 PM   #21
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Re: 1-3 NLHE - A6s - Highest EV line OTT

Preflop is either/or for me. At tight tables, I'd probably raise if I feel that's likely to get things HU (especially against loose Villain) after just 2 limpers. At loose tables, I'm fine with an overlimp (and especially given the fact that Villain will call a raise, which might lead to limpers then coming along, I think I lean towards an overlimp).

I would probably fold the flop. The guy did just bet into 4 opponents. We *might* have high RIO if we hit the cards we think might be good. It's probably not going to get any easier. In the end, we have second pair / no-redraw-to-anything-worthwhile in a multiway flop. Folding the best hand here in a small pot is never a big mistake. Getting in lots of chips with the worst of it over the next street or two is. Move on to the next hand, imo.

As played, we're probably committed on the turn. We can't easily play for stacks by just flatting, plus we'd like to charge the draws (especially since it's unlikely he'll fold given the read). I typically like offering very poor 2:1 odds against someone who can still call, so I'd make it ~$160 (won't argue with a little less), and also makes river a trivial shove.

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