I debated even posting this because basically I think I just played it like a moron at the end of a long session but I kind of had a plan that was situation specific and I'd like to get some input so thanks for hanging with me.

The villain in this hand is a local 1/3 regish player. He opens to the standard 13 as frequently as I do. We are certainly the two most active players outside of 2-3 stations in the game. We have some history together on a hand where I opened 99 in late position, and he defended with Q8....flopped trips, immediately led out and got 2 streets of value from me on a 8832 board before crazily jamming the Q river (I folded and he showed after I said, "that was dumb, if you bet 100 a snap call you") he then went on to ask me how I could even consider "calling that with a Q on the river" to which I didn't reply. He has his racks on the table and said he is only staying one orbit but he has said that 6 times previously. Anyway on to the hand.

Hero (BB) is stack is ~850 (up from 300), Villain has just about 800.

Hero is dealt QQ

The V limps UTG +2, the 3 stations (HJ, CO, Button) in the game limp along. Hero raises to 18, EVERYONE calls.

Flop (91)

JJ8

Hero checks, Villain bombs the flop for (85), all limpers muck instantly, Hero....?

Please include plans for the turn if applicable...

Thanks!

Instafold

Folding easily.


Villain bombs it into the field multiway, vi are almost 300 BB deep and we have a one pair hand that is drawing extremely thin if we are up against Jx or better here.

You give free lessons? Seems counterproductive.

Raise more pre. $25 is good

Definitely not folding to 1 bet... You've underrepresented your hand so ch/calling now is fine. I think V's range is a lot wider than Jx. There's a ton of draws in his range (unfortunately some of which we block) and V can overvalue hands like 77's-TT's. I think once we ch/call flop we need to have a plan on what we are going to do on all brick turns. If your looking to play chicken & fold to any aggression OTT then I can get behind just folding now and "waiting for a better spot". I like leading the turn personally for $125-$160 and folding to a raise, this way we define his hand a little more and still charge his draws.

Yep. Might not change post flop action on this hand, but it's never fun to go multiway and oop against five players with a big pair.

AP easy Fold, esp this deep OOP when you give up initiative.

Next time bet 30, put your main foe immediately in bad relative pos and see how he reacts facing a bet w 3 stations behind.

Hand 1 is a much better discussion. You were willing to go call-call-call $100 with 99 on the 883-2-Q. You can't beat 8x/22/33/99/TT/JJ/QQ/KK/AA. So what did V do up to that point that you thought he'd triple barrel bluff from oop with not even a draw?

No to pretty much all. You realize 5 two card hands weighted towards high connected cards saw the flop right?

#1 Raise bigger PF; playing QQ well multiway OOP is nearly impossible.

#2 Block the flop, but don't make it obvious you're blocking. It's tons easier to play this hand after betting, rather than after checking. AP, he's polarized, and unless you have a way to determine whether he's weighted big bottom, or top, you're kind of just stuck in a bad place.

Don't do stuff that makes the game harder for yourself. Don't encourage action when you're OOP with a hand like this that ends up being one pair at the end so often. Flops that turn this hand into gold are extremely rare.

Being this deep i actually dont mind the raisesize that much, because if go even bigger we are turning our hand pretty much faceup as a big pocket pair: wich spells for even harder postflopplay when our own range is that well defined. Its not like we are playing 100 BB or less aiming to get a small SPR and stackoff postflop on favourable boards.


I dont think OP did anything wrong this hand, we just got an unfortunate combo of too many callers, a pretty bad flop for our hand multiway, and we are facing a full pot sized bet alongside being OOP and almost 300 BB deep. No shame in just folding this on the flop right away, and i dont think its costing us alot of EV either.

^ You're not turning your hand face up as a big pocket pair unless you do something you only do with a big pocket pair.

Again, don't do things that make the game easier for others and harder for yourself. Telegraphing your hole cards with your bet sizes is one of those things.

^ Let's say the object of the game is to get ourselves into spots where folding doesn't cost us much EV, and call it a victory.

Debatable seat choice. We have a good seat on 3 stations, but imo that is trumped by being directly OOP to an active deep and probably decent player.

I'd rather not see a very multiway pot here OOP, so I'd raise a lot more to try to get this HU with one of the stations. Your game plays a lot differently than mine if a mere $18 raise after 4 limpers has a chance at narrowing the field (but I'm guessing this game does play a lot differently than mine).

I'd probably bet small on the flop, like no more than a 1/2 PSB. We're vulnerable to overcards and draws and can easily get called by worse; not in love with giving a free card here 5way.

As played, I might give up now. Villains history hand he just played straightforward by donking his ~nuts, and that would be a very good plan here with 3 stations behind. If he's bluffing / semi-bluffing, there is no reason for him to bet so much to see if someone actually has a J (where a 1/2 PSB would accomplish the same thing). Wouldn't even surprise me at all if he had 88 and was simply attempting to build a pot as quickly as possible for stacks against Jx or get money in ASAP against draws (as draws never fold the flop).

GcluelessNLnoobG

I don't even think twice and fold.

EDIT: I'd also raise pre-flop to something larger. Something the reg will fold him small pairs and suited connectors to, and something one of the stations will still call. I'm thinking $25 seems right.

I generally avoid providing poker lessons (particularly about my play) at the table.

I probably make the pre raise larger, like 25. I'd still expect more than one caller.


OK, interesting flop action.

SPR is about 8 - 9. Not really looking to get stacks in here vs. regish V.

I lead the flop for 75, though I'm not loving it. But we don't want to plan a x/r, because that's putting commitment on the table. We don't really want a fairly wet board checked through. We don't really want someone to get frisky and figure they can turn their 8 into a J. If someone is good enough to bluff or semibluff raise my cbet here, fare thee well. If the flop is called, I'll probably b/f the turn around half the pot.

As played: oh, dear.

How long ago was the hand with the 99? If it was recent, and V remembers your helpful lesson, maybe he thinks he can get value from you with a big bet.

I think I fold (and never admit to it). It's just such a crappy situation, and it's going to be expensive to figure out who's winning.

If we think V is capable of betting an 8 or a draw here, there's merit to a x/r to 200. The 8's should go away immediately. Even the draws are going to have to think twice. Now they should expect only one card to make it, and they're not getting the right place. Also, we're claiming a J, which reduces their outs. Obviously, this loses 200 to a J, 88, or draw that hangs around. We'd need to get a fold just over half the time to break even.

Like other posters have mentioned i also think this is for value and that villain is super strong here.

I believe its a pretty common deepstack mistake to get involved in this hand.


1) We have a RIO type of hand with our one pair hand on this flop wich has bad equity against villains valuerange.


2) Very few cards makes our hand better, only running flushcards (if they are alive) and two outs queens full.


3) Our range is pretty much capped to non monsters that cant stand much heat after if we just calling the flop after we opted to not C bet and even an average villain will understand that.

Thanks for the comments everyone - to be honest my comment about "you should have bet 100 and I would have called you" was specifically to induce him to show me his hand - no other reason - my tone purposely indicated I thought he was bluffing so I could see his hand - seemed like scared money to me a bit.... i would have absolutely folded the river although not having a ton of reads on him before that, I am not seeing myself playing the first street on that hand much differently anyway but whatevs on that.

On the hand itself I really didn't think betting out was the best option - I considered going like 40'ish with a plan to shut it down to a raise and check evaluate the turn if flatted but I honestly thought back to the Q8 hand which was only 45 minutes before this and laid it down.

I ended up folding after some thought - he didn't show but said "you did the right thing sir" - bloop needled me.

GP

Being OOP here sucks.

Bet-fold>>>>>>>>>Check.

Agree with raise pre to $25 (or more). You want to price out some limpers and narrow the hands that will call you. The other three players called because LOLPOTODDS.

no?

The line would probably be fine if we had position. c/c flop, c/r blank turn is probably superior.

The logic for the x/r line is wrong and Case2 writes this in the first sentence after suggesting it.

The first sentence is mostly irrelevant; you almost always move a guy off the bottom of his range when you bet.

I agree with raising more PF and betting the flop. Worse hands will call and a jack or better will often raise fearing the draws out there. So that player will often raise big and you can fold.

raise more pre, 25$
I think this is a fold