I don't remember this hand exactly but I come across this situation many times where I play flush draws passively by calling all the way just to fold on the river.. so here's the hand:

Villain (SB): $ 300, Middle aged semi-passive guy, not many reads on him but he plays straight forward I think

Here (CO): $350, Haven't been playing many hands really


Limp A7dd along with 3-4 other limpers as usual


Flop: Td 7c 6d

Checked around to me, I bet 10, SB makes it 20..I call

Turn: blank

He bets 30, I call

River: blank

He bets 50, I fold, he flips over ATx for one pair


I don't know how I could play this differently.. his CR on flop looked strong so I couldn't RR there and commit.. but again, if the flush hits, I'm not getting paid.. these kind of situations come up way too often and I'm left clueless about what to do..

If you don't think youre gonna get paid when you hit your flush, take the free card on the flop. You're rarely ever going to get everyone to fold by betting and your hand has decent showdown value. So when you bet in this spot, you only get called by hands that have you beat but are weaker strength hands anyway - so they just fold when you hit.

But, there are many diamonds that can give someone a straight or a lower flush, so you can get paid on those hands anyway when you hit whether you lead flop or just take the free card.

Since that happens very often live (unless someone else has a fd as well), are you implying to mostly take free cards on flop with flush draws? Asking this also because I saw a pro do the same thing yesterday on flop, and getting paid off on turn and river after he turned the flush.

It just depends on the villains and the board.

Against tighter/passive villains, you can lead profitably and get folds a lot on certain boards.

Against stationy players, I probably always take the free card and hope to hit my hand and then get paid when they hit their straight or top pair and can never fold.

I'm a bit confused here. Stationy players are going to call no matter what so can't it be a good idea to bet the draw against them as well to make the pot bigger and try extracting max when we hit? I know we're differing on some logic here and I could be wrong since I'm just learning.

You played it fine. Could consider betting if an 8 or 9 came and he checked to us.

Well a station on that flop will probably call with like Tx, straight draws, flush draws, 88/99. If we bet, we're never folding out better. There's definitely something to be said for building the pot, but I think you should have some fold equity while you do that. Also, you should know that you're going to get paid off if you hit when you build a pot.

Looking at that range, its hard for many of those hands to give you multiple streets of value because they're weak to begin with and the board run out will make them even weaker.

Consider betting big right? Like how much % of pot?

Usually big bets generate more fold equity at the lower stakes so maybe like 80% of pot?

Agreed but how does that matter? We want them to call with weak hands, hoping they improve by the turn/river alongside hitting our flush, right?

True, but we don't want them to fold, do we?


Sorry, I am questioning a lot, but only way I can learn. Thanks.

Thanks.

I'd bet more on the flop (pot+) due to our good equity.

I'm fine with getting passive after that. There's not a huge amount of money in the pot thanks to it being limped; the money behind is more important. And dude just min check/raised in a multiway pot with others left to react behind him; this is typically very strong (although I see it isn't here) and we might just be down to our flush outs. Even the turn call is a little iffy, but being in position I can see us getting paid off enough. We might also have bluffing outs on the 4-to-a-straight.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Our hand is much too strong for that also having second pair and an overcard. Flop in position is a must bet here. We might have the best hand at this point with second pair (so we're protecting our equity in the pot). A bet also sets up turn options (such as checking back for a free card, so we got our money in on the flop with huge equity and then got to realize that equity by getting to the river).

Gbettingthisflop100%ofthetimeG

No you dont want them to call with those hands. Even though they are week hands they still have us beat. All we have is a flush draw. You never want to be putting money in a pot when you are at a disadvantage equity wise, when you do your villain gains and you lose. You only want to bet your draws when you have fold equity. For example say we have 30% equity with our draw and its checked to us. If we check behind we have a chance to realize our equity for free wich will happen 30% of the time. Now say the same situation occurs but this time we have a range for our vil. Its checked to us and we know that if we bet our vil will fold 20% of his range. This gives us another 20% equity so it makes it more +ev. So basically if you know your villain will mot fold any of his range when you bet then take the free card and draw for free. If you think vill will fold enough of his range that combined with you hands actual equity makes it more +ev than calling bet. Sorry didnt realize you had mid pair as well. I think your question was broader than this one hand though

WTF at not betting with pair + draw here.

Depending upon table history (i.e. likelihood of going X ways to the flop) and number of limpers to date I can have this hand in my preflop raising range from the cutoff.

Flop and turn calls seem pretty standard vs a passive player