1/3 NL, 10 handed

V1 ($190) is a white mid 30's male semi-reg. Not a complete moron because he's able to fold hands and prides himself on not paying people off (once saw him bet/fold the second nut flush on a non-paired 3-to-a-flush board on the river in a huge pot, and his opponent showed him the nut flush after he folded). But he also does ******ed stuff like missing huge potential value (earlier I limp/call his raise with a small pocket pair, it goes HU, he checks back overs + straight draw + nut flush draw, he then checks back the nut straight on the turn, I mean, wtf?). But still, he's not ******ed.

V2 ($800) is a white late 40's male semi-reg. Quite passive and very straightforward ABC and pretty transparent, but again, he's not ******ed, and might even be a winner in this game. He knows the two of us our deep, he's not going to build a big pot unless he's got the nuts.

Hero ($800) is a white early 40's male reg. I've played with both of these guys before, my guess is that they see me on the tight / nitty / non-******ed side. I've done nothing out-of-line since they've been at the table.

Preflop (10 players): Hero is UTG with 6 6
Hero limps, V1 raises to $10 in EP-MP, a call, V2 calls on the Button, I call

[$10 is a small raise so I doubt it's a big hand. I could probably even attempt a squeeze here, but I typically prefer just to setmine here.]

Flop (4 players, $40): 5 4 3
Hero checks, V1 bets $20, fold, V2 calls, Hero calls

[As far as overpair + OESFDs go, I'm guessing this is of the weak variety. I'm guessing I have 2 outs that could *possibly* stack (or at least take a huge chunk) of V2s stack. My overpair might still be good. My implied odds on a straight probably suck. But I'm getting 4:1, I can't fold yet, can I? And my hand really isn't good enough to get all aggro with it / build a pot, right?]

Turn (3 players, $100): A
Hero checks, V1 bets $35, V2 calls, Hero calls

[I'm guessing my pair is no good now. But my implieds on my straight are probably a little better (if a 2 hits, the others might think I'm trying to steal a chop). Plus I still have those magic 2 stacking outs. I'm getting almost 5:1. Ug?]

River (3 players, $205): 6
Hero?

[Whoop, a set on a 4-to-a-straight / 3-to-a-flush board. Now what? Am I bet/folding for value? Am I check/calling just happy to win the pot? Am I betting as a bluff? I doubt anyone is bluffing this river here, so my hand probably ain't a bluffcatcher. And I think it's possible worse hands could call a bet (and yet check behind given the opportunity), and at the same time it might even be possible better hands fold. How horrible is bet/fold of $100?

Pretty sure I'm supposed to get rid of my hand here at some point, plus I was super confused on the river, but I'm guessing I'm blinded by the overpair + OESFD even though I realize this one is extremely weak.

Gfloppingoverpair+OESFDsandconsideringjustmuckingt hemandmovingonG

Not that it would have changed the outcome in this hand, why not open with your pair and then think about taking initiative depending on flop?

Gross.

I don't really mind the play to the river, although I'm sure someone will do the math and tell us that it's sub-optimal but I can never fold this multiway OTF/OTT to bets sized this poorly.

River is gross, because now it depends on how un-******ed our villains are. You can't bluff these two because they probably aren't folding anything better and at the same time if they really are not total mouth-breathers then they are insta-mucking 1pr/2pr type hands. Thus our value comes from the remaining combos of 33-55 that can sigh-call. Pertty thin spot, which makes me think b/f is burning money, unless villain is silly enough to call here with like A5... Sizing leads me to believe no one is particularly thrilled so even though it seems gross:

c/c>>>>>>openfold>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>b/f?

V1 is betting the entire way, despite some history of checking big hands. The turn did not scare him, so a big AsXx or made hands like flushes and sets are in his range. His passive image suggests weaker hands like draws would be checking multi-way.

V2 is passively calling, so more likely weighted toward a draw, combo, or perhaps 7s7x.

Your line has been passive, so I think leading the river will not fold better. I’d check-call if V2 folds to V1 action, likely C/F if both give action ... can’t be good vs. 2 players, can we?

I vote for cheapest showdown possible

Preflop and flop are fine. I'm checking the flop here also with two opponents to see what they want to do first. It is doubtful I'm ever folding the open ended straight flush draw, but the risk that somebody has a higher draw is big here if there is too much action.

Turn and river are about as gross as things can get. On turn you can be pretty sure you pair is no good and the risk of somebody already having a higher flush gets bigger but the odds your getting are too good to fold either. On the river, there isn't much better that ever folds but there isn't much worse that can call if you lead either. I'm thinking check/call, with a possible fold if there is too much action or too big a bet.

I may have given V1 a more passive image than intended; he can be aggro. The example hand was just an example of how he can do wtf things.

I was also thinking of check/?, obviously leaning towards folding if V2 calls, and perhaps even still leaning towards folding if V1 continued to barrel into 2 players (but maybe calling a small bet).

The thing I was thinking about at the time is I feel I sometimes autopilot here and was wondering if I'm missing value by just checking. But I guess a bet is pretty thin, especially against non-droolers?

GcluelessG

I agree with your check/ possibly call line.

B/F for value seems superrrr thin. In the best case scenario v2 could have 55 and he still might fold to your VB. Your line just looks so much like the nutz (though I'd guess you'd actually fastplay any made flush.)

I'm surprised no one has complained about the flop play, yet. I would c/r that puppy to $100 all day. The board is terrifying, so your FE should be high, and you have great equity when called/shoved on by V1. My next preferred line would be donking out for pot and likely folding to a raise. Only if those were barred to me would I c/c.

AP, I check river and eval, likely calling anything up to 3/4 pot if V1 does it and V2 folds, folding if V2 calls or raises, and soul reading (likely folding) if V1 checks and V2 bets.

Totally agree with Garick on this one. I'm almost never flatting the flop here. We have no implied odds; what is the point of flatting?

This board is scary for anything other than AsAx and a made flush. Even small flushes aren't loving this board, and V1 shouldn't have too many made flushes (other than nut flushes) in his range (he raised PF, probably doesn't have too many K-high flushes here).

As crazy as it sounds, we can c/r/f this flop. It's exploitable, but neither of these Villains are exploiting you... ever. If they 3bet your c/r, they have you drawing incredibly thin.

I don't think we need to c/r that big, either. We can make it $70, which is probably how most live players would play a made flush.

I expect to just take it down most of the time, but if I get flatted, I'm probably shutting down, as we don't do very well against a continuing range from either villain.

donking flop is also a good play, imo. We set our price, take initiative, and we can blow out random hands that have decent equity against our range. For instance, QcTs is going to beat us 37% of the time. Random overcards with a weak spade will often showdown and win.

We want those hands out-- we want to bet and have them fold. We don't want the flop to check through and then let them hit.

I like bet/fold $100

And +1 to some aggression OTF

GG... Your passive lines make my head hurt.

Anyone who considers you a reg should be just about terrified in pots where you show some aggression.

as played... B/f river for pot.

Yep. Turn that hand into a bluff already!

FWIW, this is what I went with, but in the end I felt it was burning money. Seems pretty thin, plus it doesn't allow me to get away from my hand for nothing.

GbutmaybeI'mbeingresultsorientedG

This is my single biggest fear. My game is sooooooo transparent. And yet it still seems to work, but I'm guessing mostly just against the terrible regs.

Raise pre if they are that nitty ffs makes this hand easier

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Do we really have great hand equity? If we get it all in vs the short guy, can't we very easily be down to 2 outs? And having the deep guy call me and then being OOP on a whiffed turn (and, other than my 2 magic outs, what am I hoping for?) seems gross. While I do agree that a check/raise with my image against these guys carries decent FE, I don't agree that my hand is actually very strong.

Also, is everyone cool with getting blown off a 2outer that could possibly stack an $800 deep opponent? I mean, ya, it's only a 2outer, but still...

GcluelessNLnoobG

Grunch. Well kind of sort of. I read the first reply. Don't ever open 66 here.

I would lead the flop, but not because I have an overpair. I have a decent-ish draw and I want to set the price for the next card. I can get called by plenty of worse hands. But I am going to make it small, like 1/3rd pot so maybe $15. If someone raises, I am done and not going to level myself into a call.

On the turn, I would do the same. The same third size pot bet or so. If someone has an Ace and raises, then I am done.

These bets could be exploitable by good players but neither villain sounds like they are up to that level.

As played and as for the river: If we bet, what purpose does it serve? Is it for value or as a bluff. If it is for value, can we get called be worse? I guess maybe Ax could call. If it is as a bluff, then can we make V1 fold a strong hand like a small flush? I don't think that is really in his range since he opened smallish pre-flop.

I couldn't see myself not trying to get some value from this hand on the river. I might lead out $75 or so in a bet/fold situation. I think we can get called by worse.

What do you do if V comes back over the top? I think that is way overplaying our hand.

Neither V is likely to come over the top here. V1 c-bet half pot on a monotone straightening board, and V2 flatted with Hero left to act. Neither action screams strength, and V1 "prides himself on not paying people off" and V2 has very deep effective stacks. Their 3-bet flop range here is likely very narrow.

I would still likely get it in with V1, as he *could* be as light as an overpair or AsX if he shoves, plus a few made straights and sets in his range against which we would be drawing well. Only made flushes have us crushed. V2, I'd likely fold if he came over the top, although I can't really think what a deep "passive and very straightforward ABC player" could flat the c-bet and then 3-bet our raise with.

Frankly, I'd be more worried about how to play if V2 called.

So u want to just opwn QQ+ then? We are 250bbs deep low pps even become a 3bet this deep. If you are going to have a polarized opening range this deep absolutely should be 22 +

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I am all about barreling and taking initiative pre-flop. It is a big part of my game. But I want to have position and hand that flops decent and gives me at least some equity when I miss. I can open this hand and then try to barrel my opponents off hands when I miss, but I got to do this out of position and it is very difficult to do with much success in a live FR game. Under the gun, a pair of sixes is just meh and I want to avoid these marginal spots.

As far as getting a player to stack off 250BB deep with just an overpair to the board, good luck with that. It takes a special kind of fish to do that and is becoming rarer in today's games.

So is your check-raise for value or as a bluff? If it is for value, it is hard to see being called by worse. I haven't stoved it, but I don't think we are doing that well even against a hand like AJx.

If it is a bluff, then we are going to need to make it at least 4x. So that means if we get called, we are bloating the pot up out of position with a very marginal hand. I am not to keen on that.