1/3 NL 9 handed...overall passive table. Avg ages of all Vs probably 50.

Hero: Late 20s. Viewed as LAG winning player. Been catching the deck and showing down strong. Haven't bluffed (or needed to). Stack 550

Vs 1 and 2. Both MAWGs. ABC/fit or fold type. Not thinking players but probably small long term winners. V1 stack 250. V2 400.

OTTH:

Hero on button with AhAc. 5 limps. Hero raises 15. Vs 1 and 2 call.

Flop: As 9h 4c...both Vs check.... Hero??

Dream situation except Vs are fit or fold type. Non draw heavy board. Does not smack Vs range. Seems like a great spot to check back and possibly let Vs catch up a tad to extract value. Or am I reading to far into this and c-bet is the play??

Wishing you had pocket fours instead. That's pretty close to the truth; there isn't much you can do to change the outcome. Check back and hope.

If one of them bets, count the pot before you act, that will help eliminate any tells.

Well you still have to have a range for these guys, maybe 44-10 10 and Ax kj Kq q10 and suited connector type hands. I say you have to c-bet just in case they have the case ace or a set also. I always like to build a pot with monster hands. Besides, they will never put you on AA.

ck back likely more value than a Cbet against these two.

Check back. Bone dry flop, and honestly you can't expect to get much value regardless of how you play this. If it's set over set, you'll get stacks in on later streets so no need to build a pot on the flop.

This is one of the very few occasions where I check back a set OTF. Give them a free card, hope they hit something and lead out if they check again.

Might be raising more preflop as well with 5 limpers.

With 5 limpers at 1/3, I would usually be raising to more than 15 from the button with aces. Though in this situation, 2 callers was ideal and you may have had a table dynamic read I'm not aware of. As is, you flopped the nuts and aren't vulnerable to any turn cards. You're not getting 3 streets of value from anything on this board, save for another set. If there is another set that checked through though, you'll probably get a re-raise somewhere down the line anyhow. You'd be best to check back and give them a little room to catch up.

I disagree with everyone that is saying to check behind on the flop.

Even though the villians are ABC fit/fold they are expecting for you to cbet your whole range on that flop. Button preflop raises from a LAG is not going to get very much much respect. If an ABC fit/fold villian is going to call lite it will be in this spot. Give them what they are expecting and just bet.

You are not going to get 3 streets of value anyway unless one of them flopped a set or has AK. It's not the end of the world if they both fold here. The pot is most likely as big as it was going to be anyway.

I would most likely check back on the turn to try to get value/called lite on the river. I would "bomb" the river to try to make it look like a bluff. Even weak/tight villians will get trapped by this line sometimes.

Incorrect line. We are at the table to help the others lose, not to resolve the conflict in the most orderly, efficient manner. V2 has a 400 stack and our goal is to get it in the middle, no matter how unlikely that is.

The flop is extraordinarily dry; if we let two more cards come off, we may win a pot sized bet, or better, from someone who makes two pair. If the 9 pairs, we will win significantly more from someone with 89 or T9 or J9 than we could hope for in this spot.

The fact that a big pot is unlikely doesn't change the fact that a big pot is our goal.

Your argument makes more sense: A) after we let a card come off, B) after someone else bets. If someone else bets, it's worth the attempt to use their inertia against them.

With this board, having the mortal nutz _and_ facing a villain that is fit or fold postflop i think its pretty clear that we need to check this back to let him possibly catch up.


The hands that villain are able to continue with when we have 3 aces is just so few, we are probably losing a ton of value betting this flop just to see him fold like 9 out of 10 times.

I'll check this flop. Add one more Broadway card, or a flush draw, and I go back to betting.

Clear division in the responses of how to play this hand...To those in the bet flop camp....what's your bet sizing look like??

Fit/Fold means they're usually not thinking about what we'll do or what position we're in. They're looking at their cards and not much else.

I'm probably c-betting top set of aces 70% of the time, this is one of the times I check.

I don't have much of a camp. I'm pretty much the only one that has said that they would bet this flop.

As one poster stated, "our goal is to build a pot". With the line that I suggested you are trying to get two streets of value. I would bet between 1/2 and 2/3 of the pot on the flop.

My argument for betting this flop is mainly due to the villians expecting us to bet and the villians not giving the button raise from us, LAG, no respect.

I somewhat agree that if you check behind, a joker for one of the two villians might come off on the turn. Most competent villians will proceed more cautious even when the turn helps them since they were expecting the flop bet and the LAG checked. LAG's hardly ever check after taking control of the pot EXCEPT the times that they have a monster.

Fit/fold weak/tight villians usually play premium/tight range especially out of position in raised pots. I know this because in my experience playing LSNL, weak/tight is usually the easiest lowest variance way to make money.

I know I'd float this flop bet from a LAG with 1010 - KK when I'm expecting the LAG to bet his whole range.

Would certainly raise more pre flop. If the avg age of the table is pretty high and you're a young aggressive player on the button they're not going to give you any respect, most would call a 20-25 dollar raise as quick as they'd call a 15 dollar raise.

Im one for checking this flop back as frustrating as it may be. Against fit/fold players you're likely only going to get one street from 9x and maybe pocket pairs 55+, its unlikely that they're going to peel 1 bet out of position with any 2 broadway cards, unless you've done something previously in the night to show the you're getting way out of line on boards of this type, also seems unlikely. You can obviously get value from Ax but you block this. When you check back the flop and bet turn and river these sort of players can become non believers because they expect you to always bet an ace high board and make it more likely to get 2 streets. As already said if one villain has a set then you're more than likely going to stack them anyway

I agree with you, pretty much, but the problem is what would the Vs be thinking? Would they have categorized him as a LAG player and expect him to Cbet? If they are as fit/fold as Hero is saying, then they probably aren't paying much attention to patterns like this and he should check. If he thinks they are paying attention/trying to get a read on him or whatever, then do as you normally would and cbet, but i'm guessing if they're that focused on their hand, they probably are not going to put any thought into whether or not he raised PF and then didn't cbet or whatever.

I think most of time betting this flop with these players will only get you 2 folds. Checking it back gives maybe one of them to catch something they will stick with. This is a set of As not pocket aces alone. Your hand can afford to give a free card here most of the time if not all the time.

that board is pretty damn dry. it is so hard for the V's, as you describe them, to have anything where they are going to call the flop.

you could try to get really cute and bet 10, just to see what they do. odds are that one of them reluctantly calls and then instafolds to another bet of ten on the turn, so I think the best play here is to check.

if you get lucky enough to have a set over set situation here, don't worry about getting value on the flop, it is all going to get in by the river anyway. but if you check the flop, you give your opponents a chance to catch a piece to call a couple of streets to some small value bets.

Slowplaying has its place when you have depleted the deck of face cards like when you flop quads or top full house, but it’s always a bad idea when you flop a set. Big hands deserve big pots, and you don’t build a big pot with checks and calls.

Come out swinging, especially on the flop. Letting the flop get checked through can mean the difference between winning a small pot or a big pot. Playing big hands well is an important no-limit skill. Mentally divide up the stacks into bet-sized chunks. Think about how your opponent plays and choose the betting line most likely to build a monster pot.

Why slowplay when nobody knows you got a monster? If you check how others here suggested, you may win a small pot at the end. But I’d say: your are better off start building the pot up instead of checking. Why ? Because let’s say in three similar situations you check, well you still win 3 small pots or going my way you’ll win 2 small pots and a monster of all opponent’s stack. Sometimes you’re going to scare your opponents out early and win nothing. So what? Play for the big pot anyway. After all, which is better?: winning three $50 pots, or winning two $40 pots and one $400 pot? No-limit math generally supports betting big with your big hands, so put yourself into that mindset.

Alright: i take your posts serious as a start, even if i think it consist of alot of unprecisely delivered "so called" knowledge.


As a start: how often do you think a fit or fold nitty villain is going to be able to continue with this hand if we fire the flop having the board locked up with 3 aces? What kind of combos does he need to hold here to get involved in this pot?


I would say that he probably fold here 9 out of 10 times, and how much value for our big hand does that result gives us you think?

I'd probably raise a lot more after 5 limps to the button, but we somehow managed to narrow this to 3way so ok I guess.

Since Villain are fit/fold I'd probably check back the flop. If they have hit a set/monster, we'll probably be able to get enough in on the turn to enable us to play for stacks by the river. Otherwise, on this drawless board, we really need them to hit something else to have any bet paid off. Against fish (or tricky players who know I cbet a lot here), I'd bet it to let them do their thing.

ETA: I'm all for building big pots with our big hands in order to play for stacks. But against fit/folders, we are targetting such a small range with the flop bet to be able to do that (basically the case A or a two pair or set). If they have two pair or a set, we'll *probably* be able to generate enough action on the turn to setup a river bet for stacks. So the only hand we're not building a big pot against is the case A. FWIW, we could still attempt to play for stacks against a passive case A by overbombing the pot on the turn/river for stacks (which is probably what I'd do).

GcluelessNLnoobG

Bone dry board we hope for a set or Ax obv.

Either check back or bet ******edly small to juice the pot and reopen the action with less risk of folding them out.

If we bet the flop because "that's what they expect", won't they fold most all of their hands that have a chance to catch up on the turn and pay us off?

We c bet this board with 100% of our air because we know they are only calling with an A or a set. We check behind this flop at the top of our range for the same reason. If they have a set you are getting all their money anyway. If they have an A you are getting 2 streets. Give them a free card and hope like hell that they hit something.

It would be better etiquette to give some partial attribution to Ed Miller here, as this content is almost verbatim from his Small Stakes No Limit Holdem book .

Though I agree with Miller's advice generally, I think even he would consider checking top set on dry board in position with 2 passive opponents.