Ugh, horrible to check the nuts on the river. Villan checked so he might have some sort of pair with SDV! Our hand is %100 always good here unless we get check raised. The 4 is a very nice card for us and him.

We should bet $120 - $200 depending on the frequency we want to get a call. $150 is good.

First of all, neither person in the hand had the nuts.

Second of all, how can you say our hand is 100% always good here unless we get check raised when we didnt get check raised and we weren't good. You just cant make this stuff up.

A straight is not the nuts on a paired board, which is likely why villain check-called and not bet. Hero's hand is good about 60% of the time against a check-call range of KQ/QQ+/JT/AJ/KJ. That's good enough for a river value bet, but far from being 100% good.

I saw the results, meh. Rare spot, villan made a good check, draws missed. But were only losing to bigger pairs. I still like my advice above/ even if its a value own. Bet/ fold is always better than checking and missing value in the long run.

For what it's worth villan checked the nut straight on a missed flush draw board with the only thing he's losing to is the paired river 4. I mean this is so trivial that im not sure we can ever check back our QQ here, ever, in the long run. How rare is that, villan should CRAI not check call. I am bet folding here %100 of the time here because were usually good here <%50.

We lost the min with QQ on this board imho.

It's such an obvious point that it shouldn't have to be said

Are you the V in this hand?

Is V checking KQ vs a passive player who won't bluff missed draws but will check back TP a good play? Isn't he losing value by letting those hands check behind?

If I got to the river in this manner I would probably shove for value. Our hand is so underrepped and his weaker two pairs are now counterfeited.

If you tell me he never calls with worse then we can bluff our missed draws with near impunity, especially when we have K and Q flush blockers here.

Pretty sure I said "In fact, I would almost go as far as saying it's better to have virtually zero three betting range at the 1-3 level unless it's AA or KK"

Don't know where you got I think that the ONLY hands I should three bet is AA and KK. Try reading comprehension.

Well we must have different definitions of "virtually zero" then .

Regardless , having a virtually zero 3bet percentage is still very bad in my opinion and I think you know why

What's your definition of "I would almost go as far as"

Its certainly pass the threshold I would consider remotely acceptable

3 bet pre. If you think that turns your hand face up, you need to learn how to disguise your 3 betting range. QQ does not play well deepstacked, youre most likely gonna have one pair looking at a pot you cant afford to play. Youd be much better off cold calling with AA than QQ if you were going to do something like that. Whats the plan postflop? just to call him down with 1 pair? (apparently the answer is yes.)

Obviously you need to bet river, obviously he had KQ or 87 because you wouldnt ask unless you lost the hand. Incredibly poorly played by him to check/call with that hand, he couldve bet out and gotten calls from weaker.

Seems like your read is bad, this is not a good thinking lag. he bet 3 streets with a gutshot when it bricked off, basically representing nothing, he slowed down when he actually had something. seems like he is just a maniac who underplays his hands when he finally hits.

I b/f 120 on the river

raising flop is a better move imo, especially because we're deep!!!

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oh, I thought we're in position, nevermind: don't raise flop lol

Hero has the button and should definitely raise flop

Sure, lets raise flop when we are deep so we can lose a monster pot to AA/KK/JJ/TT/JT.

This deep about the only hands you are targeting when you raise flop are KQ/T9 and AJ. Villain is going to fold just about everything else. You dont raise a LAG off his hands. He will bet his entire range and value own himself. Let him. A good LAG knows when to fold to aggression but will continue betting and applying pressure even with garbage if you play possum. In this particular hand, if you raise flop hes going to call unless the raise is huge. Then youre going to pick up equity on the turn and bet and hes going to crai.

This hand was played well by hero. I would've checked behind on the river as I said already, but his bet wasnt horrible.

Don't agree at all: on the flop we're ahead of most of his cbet range and even most of his range if he calls ( there's a fd too ).

If he reraises our raise, this is either 2pair+ or KQs and we can fold.

If he just calls our reraise, he will most probably check the turn as well because of our flop aggression.

So you're "raising to find out where you're at"? Bad move especially against a LAG

Preflop: 3bet to $40. Your flat-call is awful.
Flop: As played, I like flatting here.
Turn: Again, I like flatting here.
River: Shove. You have just over a PSB left with an overpair on a board where every draw busted. You should expect any Jx hand to call you here, especially after how passively you've played the hand (not raising flop or turn, not 3betting preflop).

But he is also check/calling a lot of hands we beat for the same reason, right?

GcluelessbluffcatchingnoobG

Bingo

yes, you should bet this river. You just shouldn't bet it for $200.

$50 - $100 is fine, as worse can call or he can turn his hand into a bluff with a check raise.

I am probably bet / folding, as you just don't see people turning there hands into bluffs at this stake all that often.

[QUOTE=MikeStarr;51728387]Sure, lets raise flop when we are deep so we can lose a monster pot to AA/KK/JJ/TT/JT.

This deep about the only hands you are targeting when you raise flop are KQ/T9 and AJ. Villain is going to fold just about everything else. You dont raise a LAG off his hands. He will bet his entire range and value own himself. Let him. A good LAG knows when to fold to aggression but will continue betting and applying pressure even with garbage if you play possum. In this particular hand, if you raise flop hes going to call unless the raise is huge. Then youre going to pick up equity on the turn and bet and hes going to crai.

This hand was played well by hero. I would've checked behind on the river as I said already, but his bet


I guess I just hate the fact that this hand is 4 ways since hero didn't 3bet pre. Also , V could 'pUT hero on draw' and easily call with way wider of a range than you give him . Also I feel like playing possum and having no idea where youre at and basically just praying can't be that good either

I don't know if there a lot of hands he will call with that we beat, but there are some for sure. A river bet isnt bad. I just thought in this spot checking was better. Something seemed off to me. Ive said a million times, I play more by instinct than I do by math in a lot of spots like this one.