V1. Utg. Tight old man reg.. Never raises pre. I played with him a lot never seen him leave a winner. $250 ish behind.

V2. Very passive. On his 3rd $200 buy in.. plays every hand.

Hero. Assumed to be pretty solid tag.. been at table for one hour and got it all in with AA pre and shipped against V2 (JJ). Raised in position a few times and scooped pot with cbets. $500ish behind.

Hand. Hero is dealt 9c10c in cut-off and raises to 13. V1 utg calls and V2 calls in HJ..

FLOP. 4s4c7h. Check check. Hero cbet 25. Both villains call..

TURN. 8c. V1 checks V2 bets 30. Hero raises to 70. V1 smooth calls and V2 folds.

RIVER. Jh. V1 ships all in . Is this a snap call? How was my play on each street?

Pre-flop: Fine
Flop: Fine
Turn: I don't understand the raise. Your raise isn't likely to fold them out because it is too small, and you need to improve to win. To be honest, I'm amazed even one of them folded. With the amount you are leaving them behind here, you are extremely likely to get a follow-up call if you shove river with a busted draw. With the combo draw, I would call, but I would never raise here.

As played, You have to call river. He could easily view 5 6 as the nuts here. It's also entirely possible he has 2 pair, trips, or a boat.

Villain 1 most likely has a boat. I think both 77, and JJ makes sense. I hate boards with reverse implied odds. Fold to river shove, your behind more often than your ahead.

I would likely check the flop. I think this board is much better played as a check on the flop and bet large on the turn. As played, pot is around $250 and he should have around $150 behind. I don't see how we fold.

+1

No reason to raise the turn. Just call and hope to make V1 call it as well to build the pot if you hit. AP, call and hope to hold up, but half expect to see a boat

UTG is tight, he calls c-bet on a dry flop, cold calls a bet/raise on turn, and then open shoves AI on river.

Serious question?

As for each street, turn raise is just horrible. I wouldn't even recommend calling the turn bet.

raise pre is good, cbet the flop good, turn? If were trying to force folds you need to make it more but I don't like a raise at all. You were called in 2 spots on the flop, and now are being bet into with a player still to act behind that showed interest on the previous street.

I absolutely call the turn. Your not getting both players to fold with a raise and more than likely, on a board like this, whatever (made hands) they call the turn with, their also calling the river with to. Call turn/call river if you improve.

You improved so I think this is a call. I think this guy can have 34,45,46s,A4, 56,A7,A8,78,89,99,TT/ maybe a even a hand like Ac5c or AcJc. Sure sometimes he shows up w/77 but he just has so much worse that he can be shoving with for value.

Why?

Actually if both villains checked flop and turn, you wouldn't need to bet that much to get folds.

Calling river is about as bad as raising turn. Bad read followed by bad call.

One question though, does V1 never raise period or just pre?


I'm operating under the assumption that w/ 77,88 he raises the turn after a bet and a call a pretty high % of time. Old nitty guys tend to check/ raise their boats on the turn in these kind of spots in my experience.

V2 is behind V1.

Had hero just called, V1 is probably CR'ing.

You're essentially min-raising the turn 3-handed with 10 high on a paired board where you could already be drawing dead. Are you representing a s 4 here? Unlikely, what are you raising pre-with a 4. The only thing you are repping is 7s full or 8s full. 1-3 Villains are going to make you prove that you have these hands. You are never getting a fold with this weak turn min-raise (which is what you want). You might have got lucky and sucked out, even if you did it should be a Lesson learned. Never again. Just call the the turn bet and puke when he shoves or check-jams you on the river.

I think the fact that he is an old dude that is said to never open pre is a good thing for us here.

I think we can add more weight to his over pairs 99-QQ that he thinks he's "trapping" with. I mean if he truly never opens I guess he can have KK-AA here to. Mix in A4s,56s,78s, and a 45s and I think we have a pretty clear call here.

yeah your right I some how forgot that we raised the turn here? IDK I'll definitely toss out all the A7,A8, AJ, 89 busted flush draws.

Guys that never raise pre tend to give me trouble. Is he limping AA, 88 and 56s and then playing them like there the same hand?

How can someone with a tight label show up with 4x other than 44 and A4s, which is already a stretch. So you're looking at exactly 2 combos of A4s that could possibly take this line. I question the likelihood, but for sake of argument, I'll keep these combos in.

Old man is far more likely to CR flop with KK/AA than to take whatever line he took in this hand.

Realistically IMO, we're looking at 2 combos of A4s, 3 combos of 77, 1 combo of 44, and maybe 3 combos each of 88 and JJ. In other words, I do not think we're ever good here.

If villain shows up with wider than above, "tight" is not the right read.

yeah but even "tight" players play sc's like 78s, 67s,56s, they play suited A's, A4 in this case, but for me more so it's the fact that he is said to never raise pre flop. If that's true he cn have all the over pairs to.

Also op says that he never ever wins. I'd assume he has other glaring leaks other than limping his whole range, namely over valuing his made hands.

I'm not disputing he's taking a weird old guy nuttish line here. I just think with the info given that he may very well be playing a hand like 78s, A4s or QQ like it's 44 or JJ.

Then I don't understand what tight means. In my book, tight players just don't limp/call 4bb from UTG with any 4x that isn't at least A4s. Not sure how those other combos even matter in this hand. 87 isn't going to take this line...and if he does, he would have shown some serious calling station tendency to anyone that is paying attention.

So if he's showing up with 87, 7x, or 8x, then OP is pretty horrible at reading players.

OP also raised turn, so I question OP's read as much as I question his judgment.

No one slowplays overpair like this...ever. Why would he open shove river after he has been playing passively entire hand?

Thanks guys for all the comments.. the only hand i could put the old man on was A4... I have played with this guy a **** load. When he shoved river i thought for sure i was gonna snap him off.. lol. He had JJ for the boat.. V2 says he folded A7.. I fell like if i raise to $150 or so on the turn the outcome would have been different..If i flat V2's turn bet, V1 flats as well and i still get stacked.. V1 is never check raising with JJ in that spot..

Grunch -

Pre - raise more. ($18 - $20)
Flop - check. V2 probably won't fold.
Turn - call & see river.
River - fold. Nitty old man has a boat at least 90% of the time here.

You're in too deep. And I agree villain could easily be overvaluing several hands you beat. I still think you're beat 1/2 the time... but with that much in the pot i don't see how you find a fold.

Bottom line, I've decided that if I'm playing a drawing hand, it should always (well, almost always) be one that when I hit I'm comfortable playing for stacks. I mean that's the point of drawing right? Why ship 50bb into the pot to decide once you hit your best card in the deck you want to fold? Either way you only lose to boats, and the straight will be overlooked more often.

So unless you feel your hand is better served as a bluff, I think call the turn (since no-one's folding to the barely more than min-raise anyway) and if V1 c/r on the turn you get more info. As is, call the shove, and hope for the best.

Bro... raising the turn is just awfull... please think about it because you have a fundamental leak there

You back doored the straight after weak semi bluffing the turn. You cant fold now. If you arent sure what to do when you make your hand then you should have folded several streets ago.

How many limpers were there to us preflop? After 2 limpers, I'm typically overlimping this unless table is on the tighter side. If I'm going to attempt to iso after multiple limpers, I'd typically have to make it a lot more ($20+). We were somewhat successful getting this 3ways, but not great, imo.

This ain't a great board to cbet since no pair is ever going to fold it and we didn't hit our obvious AK. Still, I'd probably cbet it 3ways against these guys. I might just go half pot of $20 cuz I think it accomplishes the same goal as $25 does.

Yikes, I hate the turn raise. We're still multiway, including a tight old guy, and mr loosey just bet the turn for us, which most likely means he has a monster and doesn't want the turn to check thru (i.e. our FE should be really low here). The board is paired so it's possible we're drawing dead. Plus we still have the old guy to react behind us. I can't fold at this point getting 4:1, so I woulda just called.

As played, I think we have to snap call the river. We're getting 3:1 and we're ahead of trips and smaller straights, plus the odd bluff with busted draws.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I agree... turn raise is just horrible.. made a mistake.. thanks for all the comments.. i f ing butchered the hand.. i know.. lol.