Villain (UTG): 30s white guy, super loose and aggro pre, stationy post (covers)
Hero (UTG+1): late 20s Asian guy, nitty losing image, however much that matters ($500)

V1 opens $11 UTG. Hero looks down at 99 in UTG+1. Hero ???

I really want to isolate V1. Villain clearly isn't positionally aware and rest of the table is mostly nitty. Or I can flat to keep his range wide but imo this the bottom of our 3 betting range. Curious what you guys think.

I'm interested too, because my instinctive reaction was call. But i know how often i call/fold to a large squeeze IP and i always wonder if its a massive leak for me.

I think this is table specific though. If there seems to be lots of squeezing and 3b'ing IP happening i think maybe raising to ~$28 can prevent this and iso IP.

More passive table or loose passive im just calling.

I am flatting with 99 here with these positions and stacksizes. Its just seems to me we get into too many different sticky uncomfortable situations by 3 betting here. Couple of them being it would suck big time facing a 4 bet from villain, or we have the whole table behind us who can pick up a premium and pound on us pre. Often it comes overcards,difficult boards to navigate with medium pairs like 88-99. I would see alot better arguments for 3 betting if we had a shorter stack, for ex around $300 or if we had hands that plays better postflop such as AJ suited or KQ suited.

Its a small open here, we get amazing implied odds to setmine against a callingstation post that is likely to pay us off big time on many types of boards due to his stickyness.

I dont mind letting in other people either here, giving us even better odds to setmine in terms of a bigger chance of someone can pay us off post when we hit.

I'd flat given the table dynamic behind. Hoping to get multiple callers for a set mine, folding to a tight 3-b.

Textbook set mining opportunity. Also with aggro villain we doing want to face a 4bet. If you don't believe he will 4bet, it's ok to Iso with a 3bet but I'm not for it. Prefer to let callers come behind and get paid huge with a set.

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Calling is standard.

If someone makes it a small 3! ($30-35), we can still call and set mine

Agree easy flat.

I just flat. Too many people behind us could actually wake up with someone to be wanting to raise/fold (a disaster). The table is nitty, so even flatting might iso this guy anyways. And if it doesn't, whatever, we ~setmine in a multiway juiced pot. And even iso'ing the guy ain't incredibly awesome given how many horrendous flops we'll see, and even worse if just one of the world decides to flat our 3bet behind us (and I'm assuming our 3bet will be relatively small given the small opening so this ain't an impossibility).

Gbutthat'smeG

Hey guys, meet Villain 2! I remember him from last summer as a local reg. A very bad local reg. But I'm not sure if he remembers me. He just sat. Let's call the original villain V1.

V1 (UTG): 30s white guy, super loose and aggro pre, stationy post (covers)
V2 (HJ): 30s Asian guy, gambly and spewy ($200)
Hero (UTG+1): late 20s Asian guy, nitty losing image, however much that matters ($500)

V1 opens $11 UTG. Hero looks down at 99 in UTG+1. Hero 3 bets to $35. V2 cold calls in the HJ. V1 calls.

Flop: T86 ($104)

V1 checks. Hero ???

Always flatting pre. You're hand isn't strong enough to 3! vs. UTG open and you have the entire table to act behind. 3!/folding is a pretty bad outcome, whereas you should generally be getting a good price to call/call if someone 3!'s behind.

As played, c-bet ~$40.

Our preflop result really shouldn't be that unexpected, imo. Heck, in my loose 1/3 NL game I'll sometimes use upwards of $35 as an open (12x, standard, lol) and get action, so the fact that it's a 3bet doesn't really matter since it is still relatively small (unlike 3betting like a ~normalish open of $20 to $60 which will obviously get some folds from $200 stacks). And now we end up in a bloated pot with little wiggle room, OOP to one of the opponents, with a hand that will mostly flop meh; I don't find these awesome spots, so I tend to attempt to avoid them.

Anyhoo, I probably bet like a 1/3 PSB on this flop and go from there.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I cbet $50 ; this keeps initiative and can fold out some overcards that we won't like on the turn, specifically Ace or K. There aren't a lot of bad turn cards (Q or J gives us an open ender or double gutter), so this is a hand we can barrel and maybe even turn into a bluff OTR. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. For now, bet $50.

For a more passive line and pot control against a station, checking isn't terrible.

flat pre. When people cold call behind you, you're often gonna be left in no man's land otf, and if the UTG player 4bet's big, you have to fold a hand that could have felted a couple players if you hit a set (not that flatting means we need a set to win).

As played, cbet since we have a straight draw and we're representing KK+, but I'm not so happy about my hand atm.

HU is a clear cbet, but with a short-stack gambler yet to act I'm not so sure. Hate to b/f $45.

Check/evaluate action.

I'm late to the party but

OP states wants to ISO V1 flatting won't accomplish that
against nits behind I 3 to $35-40
nits will fold AK 10-10 88 and maybe JJ to an UTG bet and UTG+1 3
calling invites everyone and then were just set mining with a hand that is more than likely ahead of V1.


c-bet flop $50-$55
anyone raises and I'm jamming

Another reason for flatting preflop is that we can possibly flat/reraise this hand against gambooley spewy shortstacks like V2.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Preflop is a crystal clear 3-bet with this villain/table description.

3-ways OOP I check. We get to see V1’s action if V2 bets and we’re fine letting it check around.

Really? We're >150BBs deep with a SPR of ~4.5 and you want to gii with 2nd pair and a gutter? There are literally no draws on this board (and we're blocking J9) so any raise is almost certainly for value and we're crushed.

I like c-betting flop mainly for equity denial to overcards. Our hand is overrepped so we may even get folds from weak Ts. If we get raised I'm folding, but I really doubt we get raised here because we block all straights and straight draws, leaving only sets to raise us. Can't see anyone in there w/ 2 pair in this 3-bet pot and overpairs are unlikely unless they were very strangely (and poorly) played.

How is this a crystal clear 3bet pre when villain is described as super loose aggro? Not like 3b! is terrible but it does put us in a weird spot when we get 4b!. Flatting gives us better set-mining odds when we spike a set. Can go either way, but I think "crystal clear" is a stretch.

I'm not sure we're fine with this checking round. Thanks to preflop the pot is huge and we'd be extremely happy taking this down now with a bet, especially since half the turn is a scare card.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I wouldn't mind hearing if its just me that disagrees with this as a general rule of thumb. Would need to be much more than 100bb effective?

EDIT - just revisited stack sizes. $500 probably enough.

I think even super loose villains are even positionally aware who hate folding to reasonable 3bets, so if all we're doing is inflating the pot with a medium strength hand against an UTG raise/call (assuming we don't flop a set which we assume we won't), what's crystal clear about 3betting? Are we hoping he and everyone else folds? bc if someone calls behind us we're usually ******.

I do agree with your second sentence though, I don't mind check folding here at all.

From +1 I flat pre.

As played I cbet $50.

Whoops. Forgot to be more specific about "super loose and aggro". I simply mean he either limps or raises a lot. But doesn't 3 bet ever. In fact he flatted a raise with AKs. So we basically are never getting 4 bet here. At least not by V1. I'll update villain description moving forward.

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V1 (UTG): 30s white guy, super loose and aggro pre, stationy post but doesn't ever 3 bet (covers)
V2 (HJ): 30s Asian guy, gambly and spewy ($200)
Hero (UTG+1): late 20s Asian guy, nitty losing image, however much that matters ($500)

V1 opens $11 UTG. Hero looks down at 99 in UTG+1. Hero 3 bets to $35. V2 cold calls in the HJ. V1 calls.

Flop: T86 ($104)

V1 checks. Hero checks. V2 bets $65. V1 folds. Hero ???

Opponent has $100 behind so likely that is going in OTT. Based on a live read I might put them AI now, otherwise call.