Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-13-2017, 11:45 AM   #1
brownthunder
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 51
1/3 - Line Check flopped set, river value bet?

Hero - TAG middle aged brown guy, tight aggressive. Table views as good player. $1700

V1 - not T or L, but definitely more on the passive side. History with hero: usually gets beat and attributes it to Hero "running good". $400

V2 - sat down couple of orbits ago. No real history. Have seen him call my 3! with J8o and he took down a multiway flop on 8 high board. $300

OTTH

V2 (UTG) straddles 6
Hero (UTG+1) with 9s9h raises to 25
Folds to V1 (BB) who calls.
V2 completes.

Flop ($76)
9d6c2d

V1 and V2 check, Hero bets 40, V1 calls, V2 folds.

I feel like sizing was a bit small here, but wanted to keep one of the two Vs in. Bigger?

Turn ($156)
3h

V1 checks, Hero bets 85, V1 calls.

Again felt like this sizing was a bit small. Wanted to keep him in with incorrect drawing odds if he was chasing the flush. Bigger?

River ($326)
4d

V1 checks, Hero?

Flush completes and V1 checks to us. From my history with V1, I don't see him trapping very often. However I get the feeling he is looking to "get one" on me by GII and taking it down. Any diamond draw or 5x hand got there on the river, so I'm not really sure where I'm at.

Should Hero be checking behind? Bet/folding? I can't see him calling with worse (I make the assumption that if he had a set, he's raising me at some point in the hand). Is villain ever calling with an overpair? I feel that only 1010 elects to complete in the BB, and JJ+ is 3!





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
brownthunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 12:08 PM   #2
leavesofliberty
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: probably busto
Posts: 6,284
Re: 1/3 - Line Check flopped set, river value bet?

I'd check. TT isn't calling anyway and there is a chance V has a flush or a straight. A straight may fear a flush and check here. Bet sizes are okay if you are exploiting weak players and not giving info about your hand.

If you are able to valuebet this then you are crazy-good, and I don't want to play w you.
leavesofliberty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 03:22 PM   #3
callipygian
slowrolled by tpiranha!
 
callipygian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: but I don't know which
Posts: 19,881
Re: 1/3 - Line Check flopped set, river value bet?

Flop bet size is fine if you're cbetting enough overs to make 6x and 2x call. And it's 3-way when you bet so you're not aiming to take it down very often.

Turn bet size is small. It's HU and Villain can barely minraise a PSB. At game speed I'd probably bet 120-150 aiming to pot commit him on the river with weaker made hands like T9.

As played checking the river is burning money. Villain is still getting 2.5:1 to call which means he may actually fold, but will stack off with an awful lot of hands. Take TT-JJ 9x sets and subtract flushes and maybe 65s which is the only non-idiotic 5x to have (that don't additionally hit the flush). If Villain shows up with A5o or other stupid ****, make a note and definitely bet wider and more earlier in future hands.
callipygian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 06:14 PM   #4
BlueClaw
newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: in the pot
Posts: 34
Re: 1/3 - Line Check flopped set, river value bet?

I vote shove. If V is at all passive he can have TT-KK here in my 1/3 game. Remember how strong your open looks too. I might go 20 pre, a little bigger flop and esp. turn, and shove becomes easier OTR. I still think you set up stacks OK, just a river card we didn't want to see.
BlueClaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 06:26 PM   #5
leavesofliberty
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: probably busto
Posts: 6,284
Re: 1/3 - Line Check flopped set, river value bet?

Shove is just going to chase away any value left in this hand. Definitely not shove. Literally nothing calls a shove that doesn't beat you.
leavesofliberty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 06:46 PM   #6
BlueClaw
newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: in the pot
Posts: 34
Re: 1/3 - Line Check flopped set, river value bet?

Mainly I can't see how SPR gives us any chance to bet-fold and I hate checking. Check is fine, but V1 has all of the TT-KK even occasional AA. He's on the passive side and results oriented. I think there is metaEV here in a typical 1/3 game too... we should take these opportunities to look any bit over-aggro; going big for thin value or shoving without the nuts.
BlueClaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 04:56 AM   #7
Minatorr
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 5,226
Re: 1/3 - Line Check flopped set, river value bet?

BIGGER FLOP BIGGER TURN.

AP, just check it back. The BB's overcalling range has a lot of suited hands in it, and a lot of his flop calling range has diamonds. If you had bet bigger OTF & OTT, river is just a jam with not too many chips behind.
Minatorr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 11:26 AM   #8
gobbledygeek
Poet Laureate of LLSNL
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 32,941
Re: 1/3 - Line Check flopped set, river value bet?

I'd probably more open limp here but our raise did manage to get this 3ways in position with initiative, although I'm not convinced how often than happens at a typical loose 10 handed table.

SPRs are ~3.6 and ~4.9. The smaller one I think we're cool with getting this done in 2 streets. The larger one we'd need a bit of an overbet to get this done in 2 streets (although honestly that might not be a bad idea). Board is somewhat drawy and people don't fold draws on the flop, plus it sounds like we might have a little bit of an aggro/luckbox image. I would lean towards PSB to probably lean towards getting the rest of it in on the turn (where against V2 or both V1 + V2 that will be simple, and only against V1 will that be a little more difficult).

I just think board is slightly too drawy to drag things out over 3 streets.

And another thing that can easily happen, as happens here, is that by the time we get to the river we can easily talk ourselves out of committing due to the board getting worse and worse and us wondering what the hell he keeps calling with, and we freeze up. All you river concerns are valid, imo, and I might even check back at this point, but I just feel I lose so much value and should have set things up to get it in by the turn.

GcluelessNLnoobG
gobbledygeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 04:21 PM   #9
brownthunder
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 51
Re: 1/3 - Line Check flopped set, river value bet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
I'd probably more open limp here but our raise did manage to get this 3ways in position with initiative, although I'm not convinced how often than happens at a typical loose 10 handed table.

SPRs are ~3.6 and ~4.9. The smaller one I think we're cool with getting this done in 2 streets. The larger one we'd need a bit of an overbet to get this done in 2 streets (although honestly that might not be a bad idea). Board is somewhat drawy and people don't fold draws on the flop, plus it sounds like we might have a little bit of an aggro/luckbox image. I would lean towards PSB to probably lean towards getting the rest of it in on the turn (where against V2 or both V1 + V2 that will be simple, and only against V1 will that be a little more difficult).

I just think board is slightly too drawy to drag things out over 3 streets.

And another thing that can easily happen, as happens here, is that by the time we get to the river we can easily talk ourselves out of committing due to the board getting worse and worse and us wondering what the hell he keeps calling with, and we freeze up. All you river concerns are valid, imo, and I might even check back at this point, but I just feel I lose so much value and should have set things up to get it in by the turn.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I don't believe in open limping in general. The only time I will limp is when I'm in late position and there are a sufficient amount of limpers in front of me. I'd rather deny equity to hands that could easily limp (910o, 76o, etc). I've seen you advocate this in a couple of posts, might I ask why?

As you like to mention, I'd rather get the SPR low enough that when I hit my set, getting stacks in is much easier. I also find that having the initiative at these stakes is a HUGE plus. In practice, yes we tend to bloat the pot OOP and end up multiway, but I find that medium PP are easy to play postflop. Smack the flop? Fire hard. Miss the flop? One c-bet and done. While this may up our variance, I feel that I am happy to embrace it. Is the a spewy line of thinking? I generally like to think of sets as our main money making hands, so I'd like to get value when I do hit.

As for the rest, my concern is getting draws to fold with PS-OBets. While I agree that most players at 1/3 usually don't fold draws on the flop, I think that some can find folds when it is clear they will be facing a turn jam (or significant portion of their stack) if they don't hit.
brownthunder is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive