V1(MP) - 300 - seems competent, knows some poker concepts like ranges, seems pretty tight

V2(Button) - 250 - straightforward player, although he called by bet on Q74 board with JT

V3 BB) - 280 middle aged black guy, seems to think things through, but new to table, so call him a typical 1/3 player

Hero - raising pre, so gives a little aggro image in these games, covers all.

Hero UTG and raises to 12 with KK, get 5 callers - not expected, table wasn't that loose, just varaince

Flop(68) QJ4

V3 checks, Hero bets 40, fold, V1 calls, fold, V2 calls, V3 raises to 120, Hero...

Probably fold. This sizing multiway facing a lot of action is almost always a set. Close one though.

I just fold here, sucks but w/e.

The SPR is only 3:1 but he's doing this into two people, so I'd fold and let him take it

I'm guessing his range is skewed towards QJ and 44. I think with AQ he's often flat-calling. And I don't think a typical 1/3 player is baller enough to do this with KsTs, AsJs and Ts9s (only 3 combos).

UTG in a 1/3 game prob raise to 15 instead of 12 is preferred. As played I just bet fold here. Sure it’s exploitable but whatever. If we have the Ks I’d be slightly more inclined to call.

V2 calls... then V3 c/r.

Seems like you're beat.

So I did fold the KK, agree that it's pretty easy decision.

What about an alternate line here, with 5 callers in the hand, to go for a CRAI on this flop assuming less than 10% it gets checked through?

some games are like that, but this game it was common to have 8- 12 raises range and getting this many callers was unusual

I would consider a 6way pot standard at pretty much 80% of tables where I raised to just $12 in EP. I would mostly limp/reraise at these tables. Our result sucks, imo (although you will get different opinions on this).

I would probably check the flop and see what happens. Basically, I want to give the opportunity to the table to let me know where I'm at before I start committing money. If a tight EP guy looks like he wants to commit, or a tight guy bets and gets raised, then I probably could find a check/fold. If it like checks to a stabby guy in LP, I probably check/raise to commit.

As played, I'd fold. V3 should never be getting out of line here so we're basically banking on him overvalueing AQ (which he's unlikely doing against a preflop raiser betting into eleventeen opponents plus two calls unless he's ******ed).

GcluelessNLnoobG

i like going a lil bigger pf at least 15 like said earlier.

Multiway this many people I like a check, I don't mind the cbet w/overpair but oop a check/call seems better to me. Heads up or sometimes 3-way I'm cbetting this flop mostly, but 5 is alot to get through

Checking flop OOP vs this many people is awful. It's not like the flop is QJ9sss. KK should be the best hand on the flop like 70-80% of the time here.

Interesting little conclusion here

V2 called 80, V1 shoves, V3 shoves, V1 tanks a long time, shows his medium spades and also shoves.

and all three were on spade draws and a spade hit the river

Played fine. You could raise bigger pre, but given that it was relatively tight pre, I don't mind what you did. You want people calling with JT off and stuff.

Flop. Clearly bet and bet a good size. So many draws. Plenty of Qs. The Ks is still out there to be in drawing hands. I'd bet even if we had it, it's just even better now.

I thought shoving would be OK before I read the results, but I think folding is OK too. You are rarely way ahead, but you do have some equity against qj and even sets. You aren't that deep.

If there's anything to examine in hindsight, it might be the CR size. With such a draw heavy board, maybe V would just move in, or close to it with sets. With great draws, there might be less fear. And if 1 person calls, he actually wants other calls now, so he bets big enough to get folds, but it's OK if you call too, so he isn't doing everything in his power to prevent a turn.

But, the above could be nonsense.

Here's a somewhat hypothetical question to think about: If a whole bunch of people call with JTo and stuff for just 4% of their stack preflop (when we are the favourite) and yet all of these people play fairly soundly postflop (that's the hypothetical part, admittedly), is this *really* what we want?

In this case here, we got in a mere 4% of stacks preflop with our decent equity edge (about 40% against 5 random hands, although will be a lot less than that against non-random hands but still sucking up far more than our fair share of equity in a 6way pot). But postflop, we got in a much larger 13% of our stack and then folded as a massive 60% fave against the field in likely the biggest pot of the night, a *massive* mistake.

I'm not blaming the postflop mistake at all (I would have made the exact same one myself). All I'm saying is that the preflop result ain't nearly as good as we think it is, especially if it often sets us up for making a massive mistake postflop. And since the frequency at which we make massive mistakes is pretty much the only thing that matters and will likely decide whether we win or lose at poker, we might have to consider exactly what a good preflop result is.

Gsomethingtoconsider,imoG