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1/3 kk preflop

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06-25-2013 , 12:52 AM

pokerforjoker

adept

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 825

fairly new table, only about an hour old, villain is a regular who is somewhat competent but has a very low 3 bet frequency, in fact i cant remember him ever 3 betting in any recent sessions, in fact he really doesnt raise very often preflop. the table has been quite wild up to this point, some real droolers with decent size stacks. villain has about 300ish i have only 210 at this point.

utg (awful villain on heater) limps
utg +1 limps (no reads just sat down)
hero utg+2 raises to 15.
villain next to act in hj (player between us was missing) makes it 38.

all folds, i?

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06-25-2013 , 12:59 AM

dark_hatchling

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 338

~66BB with KK PF.
I vote for a 4bet and get the money in PF if villain will cooperate.
4bet to around half of your stack and go go go.

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06-25-2013 , 01:08 AM

Redskins 47

adept

Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 1,103

Ummmm... Place a 4th bet. You have a pretty good hand there.

Also... reload to the max after you lose to AA.

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06-25-2013 , 01:18 AM

Ray Zee

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,920

If your assessment of him is right it is an easy fold. You are going to have lots of spots in which big hands aren't so big. This time you got an early clue.

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06-25-2013 , 01:26 AM

slimshady1999

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 4,313

Is qq in his range here? If so 4bet if not fold since u do terribly against kk+.

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06-25-2013 , 01:37 AM

NuklearWinter

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,735

make it $21+ pre next time, $15 is just an awful size here. sorry he had AA. Given villain description it sounds like a fold. Does the guy respect your game at all? Helps to know ages of players, etc too.

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06-25-2013 , 01:43 AM

dark_hatchling

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 338

If he's only raising Kings and Aces then it's most definitely a clear fold. But that is just such a TIGHT range. Obviously I don't know this villain at all, but don't you think his range could be a hair wider? If it includes QQ then its almost exactly 50/50, add AKs and we pick up a tiny, tiny edge.

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06-25-2013 , 01:44 AM

pokerforjoker

adept

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 825

i would say he didnt have to have aces but he would have just flatted ak. hes about mid 40s.

i do think i could have made it 20 especially since one of the big stack droolers had already limped in the pot, i was virtually guaranteed at least 1 customer.

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06-25-2013 , 01:45 AM

pokerforjoker

adept

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 825

Quote:

Originally Posted by dark_hatchling

id say his range was probably jj qq kk or aa, i do not think he thinks of ak as a 3 betting hand, seems like a "i always miss with ak" type.

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06-25-2013 , 01:47 AM

#10

Ray Zee

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,920

His range could be wider but it seems they most times have the aces.

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06-25-2013 , 01:52 AM

#11

pokerforjoker

adept

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 825

im a little surprised guys are advocating a fold, this guy is not 100 years old knocking on deaths door playing 1 hand an hour and suddenly 3 betting.

i was more wondering if this is a flat to conceal our strength or just to get it in now, fold seems pretty awful.

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06-25-2013 , 01:57 AM

#12

Gamblerio

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 46

I have folded KK pre once, but I just don't think we should fold here.

I think we need to push here and might say nh.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using 2+2 Forums

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06-25-2013 , 02:06 AM

#13

Ray Zee

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,920

Lots of players don't raise pre unless they are sure they have the best hand. Which for most is aces.
No reason to get broke to them.

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06-25-2013 , 01:08 PM

#14

gobbledygeek

Poet Laureate of LLSNL

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 36,150

I've folded KK exactly twice preflop. Both times there was a decent amount of action preflop plus >> 100bb stacks (close to 200bb stacks in each case). Here, we're sitting with only 70bbs (not even close to ~200bbs), and this greatly influences the range of hands players are willing to get stacks in for (even tightish guys could easily be getting a little out-of-hand for smallish stacks with as little as TT/AK, maybe less). I 4bet and get the rest in on the flop.

GcluelessNLnoobG

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06-26-2013 , 02:17 AM

#15

pokerforjoker

adept

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 825

results.

i flatted, surprisingly no one took this line, my thoughts were if i 4 bet i would be pot committed any only getting action from aces (really seemed like he could fold qq/jj) and i was at a perfect c/r all in stack on the flop.

anyways flop was kcjc7c, i c/r all in over his bet of 50 and he folds and shows the black queens.

part me of me was a bit jaded that i didnt double on this hand, maybe he would have got it in with qq and i was wrong, just felt like the 4 bet would have lost him.

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06-26-2013 , 12:15 PM

#16

Ray Zee

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,920

Flatting is probable the worst if you are going all the way as you let an ace hand have a free draw, and you may fold to a c/b from queens if an ace comes.

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06-26-2013 , 02:17 PM

#17

pokerforjoker

adept

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 825

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Zee

Flatting is probable the worst if you are going all the way as you let an ace hand have a free draw, and you may fold to a c/b from queens if an ace comes.

if an ace comes

i already said i dont think he does this without a made hand (ie not ak) so yes im calling a bet if an ace comes anyways.

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06-26-2013 , 07:17 PM

#18

Garv

stranger

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 6

"well i can tell you what sailor roberts said.. if your opponent raises, and you reraise, and your opponent puts in the third raise, and you have two kings, youre a huge underdog to most everyone"

- Bobby Hoff - From the book "Harrington on cash games Vol. 2"

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