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1/3 KK on a paired board. Raised on river 1/3 KK on a paired board. Raised on river

01-22-2019 , 05:10 PM
Hero is new to the table so all villains are unknown.

Hero is dealt KK in EP. Hero raises to $10. MP calls.

Flop: 949 (Pot: $24)

Hero bets $12, villain raises to $35. Hero calls

Turn: 9495 (Pot: $94)

Hero checks, villain checks

River: 94952 (Pot: $94)

Hero bets $40, villain raises to $125.

Hero?

Pot is $259 with an $85 call to go.

I am leaning towards a call. Hand is pretty underrepped. What would raise on the flop but check through on the river? Straights and flushes got there but I don't see what would do that with any kind of draw on that flop. So we're losing to 9x and 44 and beating TT, JJ, QQ, maybe even an overplayed under pair like 88, 77. Would 9x let the turn check through on a scary card? A bad player would, but a good player would not. 44 is strong enough to give a free card.

This isn't the result of the hand but:
Spoiler:
source is from PokerPriest's recent vlog so it's not my hand:
1/3 KK on a paired board. Raised on river Quote
01-22-2019 , 05:29 PM
I raise more pre. I probably fold this AP thinking that villian got there with something ridiculous like 2 diamonds or A3, after failing to get you off your cbet on the flop and checking back the turn. Wouldn't make sense for them to raise the river with a worse pair. I'd give it up and wait for more info on the table. Maybe thats weak but I don't like making calls like this without a good read.
1/3 KK on a paired board. Raised on river Quote
01-22-2019 , 05:32 PM
I'll assume 100bb stacks.

I usually limp all my range in EP but that's me at my loose aggro tables. We somehow got this HU with a lol 3x raise so ok, great result.

I would mostly check this flop. Pretty dry, our hand isn't very vulnerable (only really hating an Ace on the turn), we'd hate to face a raise OOP and start building a huge pot, etc. Hate facing the raise and building this huge pot OOP. He obviously doesn't rep much, but is our plan just hoping he shuts down on later streets?

I also check the turn.

River we can either check to bluffcatch one more time or try to eke out value. Reads really start coming into play here more, so readless I probably try to keep the pot smaller by checking, which perhaps gives up value against some hands but I'd really like to know what is going on before playing bigger pots. As played, I think I mostly just fold.

Overall, I think we built too big of a pot OOP and got ourselves into a weird situation readless, whereas I would have leaned to getting to showdown for ~near as cheap as possible while underrepping (especially until reads are solidified).

GcluelessNLnoobG
1/3 KK on a paired board. Raised on river Quote
01-23-2019 , 04:03 AM
This is kind of a cop out answer but seems like a feel spot. Does the guy look like a nitty mawg, does he have a gambly kind of vibe? I probably call off but it depends.

Raise to at least $12-15 preflop. I probably go a bit bigger on the river bet.
1/3 KK on a paired board. Raised on river Quote
01-23-2019 , 06:46 AM
I call riv. Looks like a pair trying to protect against overs by raising small flop bet. Likely TT-QQ imo
1/3 KK on a paired board. Raised on river Quote
01-23-2019 , 08:17 AM
Gross. I'm just folding though. I disagree the hand is underrepped. Raise EP, call flop raise and bet river looks like exactly what our hand is, what else would it be? I really don't think this guy is checking back turn and then changing his mind OTR. Can't say I have any idea what villain has, but weird lines like this are generally nutted in my experience. Did Hero fold?
1/3 KK on a paired board. Raised on river Quote
01-23-2019 , 08:21 AM
"All villains are unknown" is omitting an important piece of information: villain is a woman.

Edit: Also his vlog in general is just omitting a pile of information, he has nothing at all about how fast she acted, how old she was, nothing. Hand starts around 2:10 if anyone else wants to watch.
1/3 KK on a paired board. Raised on river Quote
01-23-2019 , 11:51 AM
If villain is a woman, my default sexist play is to fold to the flop raise, and on the river I'd muck as soon as she reached for raising chips.

Even being completely readless, I think we're really levelling ourselves if we think an overpair is good by the time we've been raised not once but twice by the river.

GsexistpigG
1/3 KK on a paired board. Raised on river Quote
01-23-2019 , 12:50 PM
Is that relevant information? Villain was a woman? We know nothing about her so I'm not sure how stating that was relevant other than to allow people's biases to play into their decisions. What if she was an old woman vs young woman? Asian woman vs black woman? Dressed trashy vs dressed classy? etc etc.

But yeah if villain is a typical 1/3 player they're going to play straightforward and if you get raised twice, an overpair likely won't be good.
1/3 KK on a paired board. Raised on river Quote
01-23-2019 , 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synth_floyd
Is that relevant information? Villain was a woman? We know nothing about her so I'm not sure how stating that was relevant other than to allow people's biases to play into their decisions. What if she was an old woman vs young woman? Asian woman vs black woman? Dressed trashy vs dressed classy? etc etc.

But yeah if villain is a typical 1/3 player they're going to play straightforward and if you get raised twice, an overpair likely won't be good.
In my experience women are less likely to see poker as an ego contest and try to own people. I once saw a LAG taunt one of his opponents "You have little balls, I have big balls". I have not seen women do that. This is important because villain trying to own us is the only way we're winning OTR.

Quote:
What if she was an old woman vs young woman?
Of course that's relevant lol. If my opponent is either 60 years old or 20 years old, I would rather know that piece of information than watch them play a round but have their age concealed.
1/3 KK on a paired board. Raised on river Quote
01-23-2019 , 09:57 PM
Hand seems wp now fold

If i had to get into a rando 1/3 fishy/likely nitty woman’s head i think she has trips & a medium flush

Ott she mightve said oh crap he called he might have higher trips but i haz fd, lets check
1/3 KK on a paired board. Raised on river Quote
01-24-2019 , 01:16 AM
Soul read. Does your villain look like they can ever bluff here?

I think more people bluff this spot than people give credit for. The real question is would they use this sizing. In other words, is this a "big" sizing for them, that they would feasibly use to try bluff off what is clearly a very face-up range of reasonable sdv?

The answer is going to be no for most spots, seeing as you're being laid pretty good odds.
1/3 KK on a paired board. Raised on river Quote
01-24-2019 , 01:48 AM
Check this river. Fold now. Bluffs are going to be tough to come by bc of the flop raise. Worth noting that some of those airy bluffs picked up equity ott, checked, and got there. Couple deuces makes sense too however slim and it’s not completely impossible some dummy plays a 9 this way.
1/3 KK on a paired board. Raised on river Quote

      
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