Fairly loose 1/3 game, deep stacks, but no one is getting too out of line.

UTG+1 ($800) opens for $10
MP ($500) calls - main villian, asian gamble-y and bluff-y, but not stupid, I've seen him fold to resistance.

CO ($200) calls
Hero ($450) Button with KK makes it 60 to go
folds
MP calls
fold etc..

Flop: J 9 7 ($135)

MP donks 30

Hero kinda confused calls

Turn 4 ($195)

MP bets 50

Hero calls!?

River 5 ($290)

MP bets 100

Hero ... calls.


whats a better line here?

Small bet on the flop from this type of villain seems like a blocker bet. A villain like this doesn't normally do this to induce with a set.

Continue your value raises and raise to $100+ with the intention of calling a shove. Lots of pair+straight combos that are willing to see all 5 cards.

Turn pot ($335), you have $290 left. Bet/call $150. 4 doesn't change much.

Check back scary rivers. Call any river and shove safe rivers.

His bet on flop is rather weak, I'd elect to raise here.

If you however do call, if he again bets weak turn, you need pump it up on safe turns. This is a safe turn. You need to raise.

Raise flop; shove turn.

We have KK in a 3-bet pot, with an SPR slightly <3. It's a J high flop. I'm looking to get stacks in.

I make it $45 only pre. We are not trying to fold everybody out. $50 ok since we are deep here UNLESS they are droolers who will see the flop for $60 every time.

We were lucky to get one call here IMO.

I raise flop donk to $90 fold to 3 bet. Take the initiative as he should not fold a Jx.

AP When he escalates the river I have a bad feeling however kiss the chips and say Merry Xmas. We cannot fold to this V for this price as he could be valueing AJ all the way.

If your read is right, that he is not stupid, then once you call turn he knows that you have an overpair 90% of the time thus his river bet should always be 2 pair plus. Was your read wrong?

You say he is bluffy but these are not bluff sized bets.

If he has QQ he qualifies as stupid with his river bet imo cuz you're not calling with AK there and you're not 3 betting pre with AJ.

"I raise flop donk to $90 fold to 3 bet. Take the initiative as he should not fold a Jx."

Why are you giving him 4.25:1? To look like a bluff? That's the only way "not stupid" villain is putting in more money with just a J given hero's pfrr.

I guess some of us play in very loose actiony games and others play in tight games as do I.

Raise on flop. Sometimes guys do this with a set trying to induce a raise, sometimes with a weak hand that doesn't want to call a big bet, sometimes it's a draw wanting a good price.

Mostly weak, though.

He might just be betting small on the flop with a jack to see where he is at. With the low SPR I'd raise the flop to 90 and go on from there.

I agree that PF was a little big. Someone had to call $50 into $43 ... I would go $45 to $50 here depending on how the table was 3-betting and both my steal and 3-bet images.

Good 'red flag' pick up on the Flop. This was either to induce or slow the hand down. He may have been trying to see if you had a pair or AK. Flatting the Flop tells him nothing .. and really flatting the Turn may not tell him anything either if you have a stubborn image.

AP you will get no additional chips from him if you raise the River (and are ahead), so just flat here as well. When you have an opponnent who wants to lead the betting sometimes you just let them do it or risk missing out on anything additional.

Of course ABC poker is telling you to gii somehow with a bump to $90 OTF and shoving the Turn with a PSB if he checks to you.

I dont mind your approach if you 'feel' somethings up. If you are behind, then he is letting you draw cheap. I will have a hard time folding to this River bet but in the end it only cost you an extra $90 ($150-60) to see his cards. If you raise Flop to $90 ($60) and get shoved on, then you fold and don't get to draw or see his cards.

If he has a set .. fine. If he has T8 here somehow, then DONT change your 3-bet sizing one bit if he is going to call OOP with that type of hand. GL

This exactly. I am never letting his fishy 30 dollar bet get to the turn in a 3 bet pot with KK here. Raising this flop bet everytime: looking to get it allin on the flop or shoving the rest in on the turn.

I would raise to $90 preflop. Raising to $60 ain't bad, as it only gives Villain ~10x implied odds to stack us. But the problem is that if we haven't been getting out-of-line / 3betting lots, our hand is face up with a small SPR where we are basically going to have to stack off 100% of the time postflop and if Villain is "but not stupid" he should be able to play ~ok against us postflop. Although, having said that, he's going to have a hard time folding TP postflop so that will help make up for the times where he stacks us with a speculative hand. Still, I'd raise more, cuz I like making things as simple as possible, but this is definitely on the OMC-I-don't-wants-no-one-crackin-my-KK nitty side.

If Villain can get away from TP when we raise postflop (putting us exactly on the type of face up hand we have) then I actually don't mind postflop.

ETA: I certainly understand others wanting to fastplay the flop due to small SPR and going about getting stacks in, and I can't hate on that. However, this board isn't really that drawy (just QT and 86 are the good draws against us), and if Villain "isn't stupid" isn't he going to fold his TP hands here? I think I would actually rather raise the flop against this guy with a whiffed AK (maybe even a smallish almost "minraise" to "tell him where he's at"). But I can get behind the fastplay idea too.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Board is rainbow, draw-lite. You have one pair. Get a cheap showdown. Well played. You beat a J and are crushed by anything that calls your raise.

Reading some of your responses, and given what villian turned over, I think my line was actually ok.

villian had:


Generally I would raise flop here but that just screams I have KK+ and lets villian do what he will.

I disagree. Given what he turned over you really should have raised big on the flop. He was 32% to win the hand on the flop so any money you get in is +EV for you as long as you avoid the following:

Scare card on the turn slows him down
Scare card on the turn causes you to incorrectly fold
You pay him off when he makes his hand

Overall here are your most +EV outcomes on the flop:

- Get it all in on the flop +$144
- Have him fold on the flop +$105

As played you are probably cutting your +EV down to $50 or so.

Scare cards:
A (4)
K (2)
Q (4)

Cards that beat you:
J (2)
T (3)
8 (4)

Total: 19 bad turn cards, only 26 safe cards. You got lucky that one of the 26 safe cards showed up (58% chance)

River: 19 bad turn cards, 25 safe cards. You got lucky that one of the 25 safe cards showed up (57% chance)

Total chance of two safe cards: 33% (another heart on the river may have slowed him down as well)

Unlikely villain bet/folds a J on the flop.

That's results oriented thinking. It looks like you're saying that if he turned over a better hand your line would have been bad.

With J10 here villain infact has a decent amount of outs against your KK so its pretty much a disaster in my eyes to let him draw for cheap on the flop. If he folds when you raise the flop and you take the pot thats also a good result for you OP dont forget that.

I'm saying if I raised the flop and he shoved, am I folding?

Please god no.

Also flop raise should be like, $130