1/3 NL Hero with $270. Villain 1 covers and Villain 2 has $220. Villain 1 is fishy type who will limp call with hands such as K8 suited, and Villain 2 is older villain who will raise with AK and stack off with top pair.

4 limpers to the button. Hero gets dealt KK raises to $25, blinds fold, UTG+1 calls and MP2 calls.

Pot: $75

Flop:
49J

checks to Hero, bets $65. MP2 calls.

Pot: $205

Turn:
9:

Villain 2 checks.

Hero should......

Given stack sizes I'm planning to stack off here about 90% of the time baring a really ugly run out.

Pre flop looks fine.
Flop looks good.

Turn is sorta weird due to stack sizes left. I'm not worried about him having a 9. If he does, then oh well he gets our money. Because for every 9 that he called the flop with he calls with all of his Jacks also. So, lets just bet $90 - $100 or so and stick it in on every river that isn't a J.

Nice hand.

agreed, except i'd shove now instead of waiting to see if the river is scary. you have the best hand, don't make it profitable to draw outs. if he folds, $75 is plenty value out of KK in 1/3.

Not to be mean, but there's so much wrong with this post..

If we think that he will call a shove now with Jx or draws (QT, T8) 4X if he floated the flop and picked up a flush draw, then yes we should shove for fat value. Also, if we are planning to make this a two street hand we should bet more on the flop to set our selves up with a more favorable stack to pot ratio and make it easier for him to call it off. We should have bet an extra $10 - $15. Little things can make a differnce.

However we do not want to shove for fear of a bad river card. That sort of thinking loses us value. We make a play based on the board now, his likely holdings, what we think that he will call with hands that we are ahead of, and what we think that he will fold that we are losing to. Then when the next street comes along, we make the same analysis. We can't live in fear of 'scary river cards' and try to end hands just out of that fear.

Yes, this is correct. We do not want to make it profitable to draw out.
If he has a J, he can't get the right odds for any reasonable bet that we make. He has 5 outs max and maybe only 2 (if he has JT for example), and as long as we don't give him a combination of 10:1 implied + direct odds, then we are fine. That's almost impossible. If he has a straight draw with QT then he he has 4 outs, and 2 of the 'outs' that he thinks that he has will give us a boat, and we are 100% getting his stack if that's the case. So, we need to deny him ~9:1 odds. If he has T8 then he has 8 outs, so we need to deny him ~6:1 odds. If he has 4X he has 11 outs, so we need to deny him 5:1 odds. The only hand that he can have that has significant equity is T8 and that's just 1 combo out of a range of hands that has at least 30 other combos in it. So, we are not going to target that specific on.

The point of all this is that if we give him 3:1 direct odds now, and 1:1 implied odds later (which is actually closer to .8:.8 odds since we won't even have a full bet left, then we are not giving him the right odds to draw out with the vast majority of his range.

This is just not true.
'plenty of value' is not a term that you should have in your vocabulary if you are trying to up your game and play as well as you can at whatever stakes you choose to play. (1c/2c, $1/$2, $25/$50, it doesn't matter.)

If we can get a max of $75 from villains worse hands no matter how we play, then yes we are happy to get $75, but if we can get $350 and we only get $75, then we have just left $275 on the table. That's money that we could have had. It's fine to win a big pot, and it's fine to win a small pot. Sometimes that's just how it goes. But if we have an opportunity to win a bigger pot by playing our cards well, we should strive to win more money.

If you are just here for the fun of the game, that's fine. Everyone plays for their own reasons, but I encourage you to try not to think about as 'plenty'.

$75 turn/shove any river. String along the Jx. Going $100+ probably folds all hands worse than AJ but the "same bet" will usually get a call which commits them on river. Board isn't scary enough or wet enough to overbet shove the turn.

Edit - just realized V only has $130 left. He's not folding at this point so probably just jam turn. Going $65/65 isn't bad either though.

^
+1

Completely missed the fact that V only has $130 left on the turn. Super easy ship.

I ship the turn because of Villain's starting stack and remaining stack size. River is 4.

Villain asks me what I got, and I table my kings expecting to take the pot. Villain slow rolls 44 for quads. I said to him that's just rude, and he replied that he wanted to see what I was betting with.

Anyways, my real question is, is there ever a spot where I can get away from this hand with his stack size? Can I ever put him on a set? Should I have played any differently on a different street? Obviously I'm not stacking off if he had say 200 bbs behind him.

Standard cooler

Your SPR is less than 3 on the flop and after he calls your flop bet, you should be trying to get stacks in. In fact, the moment you see such a favorable flop you should try to get stacks in. You're not getting away from this.

This villain didn't raise you and could have easily played it the same way with a jack. There is no way that you could assume he had a set. He easily could have put you on AK and called the flop.

Meh, just show your hand before he even asks what you got. And personally I think people get too worked up over slowrolls. What villain did was questionable at best and some will think its clearly wrong, but I think it's better to say nothing and keep everyone in a better mood.

Slow rolling is for a*sholes.

X2. I always make people show first too even when I have the nuts. Some people get pissy about it but it makes a difference to me if they have an overpair or air.

I show if called and don't care if I'm slow rolled or not. Plenty of times when called I get the other guy to show me what he's got first and muck. So it evens out.

As for the hand - he played his set near perfect. No way to get out of that one.

I like the big preflop raise to attempt to thin the field. I might have gone just a smidge bigger (basically targetting 10% of V1's stack, our most likely target), but whatever.

I think I feel committed on this flop with an SPR around 3, in spite of being 3way. Both villains put in about ~10% of their stack preflop OOP, if they outflopped us, nice hand. Board isn't very drawy, but my plan would probably be to ~PSB or so in order to setup an easy turn shove.

Villain only has $130 left in a $205 pot. If he hit trip 9s, nice hand sir. If you shoved the turn, I think every street was played well.

ETA: Don't get mad at the slow rolling. Just laugh, smile, tap the table, and say "nice hand" and then congratulate him on any high hand jackpot he receives. Keep it friendly as possible, this will always be beneficial in the long run.

GcluelessNLnoobG