1/3 KK 1k eff flop top set - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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1/3 KK 1k eff flop top set

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01-12-2019 , 04:00 AM

KID777777

adept

Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 869

V1 ($114) loose aggro player
V2 (~1.5k) maniac, loose aggro pre always raising/3b and loose aggro post not afraid to barrel with air
H(1k) Tight image, jokingly called a rock by the table but friendly with all, doubled up vs maniac V2 who 2x pot jammed $450 a turned straight w/Q7o into my turned K hi flush

V1 opens $13 UTG, V2 3b $26 UTG+1, H 4b $101 UTG+2, V1 jams, V2 calls, H calls

Flop K

($345)
V2 checks, H ??

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01-12-2019 , 04:29 AM

setintostraight

adept

Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 884

I'm betting either fairly big to set up a turn shove(70-80% PSB) or small to induce a raise, then shoving.

Not sure which is better, that's really up to your reads on him.

An alternate line that I'm not a fan of (as a standard play) may be to check after and let him donk-value own himself on the turn, setting us up for a juicy raise/shove. Although I feel like this is fps and in a 4! pot we should just c-bet most of the time.

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01-12-2019 , 05:26 AM

WereBeer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,700

$275, ship turn.

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01-12-2019 , 05:37 AM

timmay28

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,845

Checking behind

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01-14-2019 , 12:28 PM

gobbledygeek

Poet Laureate of LLSNL

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 36,143

I'd 4bet to whatever the maniac is willing to call off preflop.

The main pot is protected so I'm guessing the maniac ain't going to get too out-of-line postflop (i.e. checking to induce ain't worth much). So I simply target the hands that can warrant a call. Is he folding a gutshot to any bet? Doubt it. And of course he's not folding a flush or OESD, and perhaps not even a pair for one bet. So I'd PSB the flop to setup a turn shove. We lose his underpairs and that's likely about it but they may have not called any bet anyways.

GcluelessNLnoobG

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01-14-2019 , 02:45 PM

twitcherroo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 2,482

$200 or so, maybe $225. The flop is the street to build a pot on. V’s are way more likely to fold to on turn and river.

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01-14-2019 , 11:28 PM

CRAIerrday

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 424

Based on villain description I would bet 285 and ship most turns

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01-14-2019 , 11:32 PM

wait

banned

Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 1,115

150

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01-14-2019 , 11:35 PM

hitchens97

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,453

I like 4bet to $55, so we can 6 bet after jams all in and v2 likely calls.

I'm probably betting small or not betting. Hits all of your range other than QQ.

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01-15-2019 , 12:47 AM

#10

SwolyswoND

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,976

Quote:

Originally Posted by WereBeer

$275, ship turn.

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01-15-2019 , 01:40 AM

#11

aftrglw

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 504

Quote:

Originally Posted by WereBeer

$275, ship turn.

+2. This should be the standard line. I'd consider sizing down if I'd seen V attack weak blocker type bets... in order to get stacks in OTF.

Also, I'm low key jealous that you flopped this good against a maniac 300+ BB deep.

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01-15-2019 , 01:45 AM

#12

donkatruck

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,911

I agree $275 ship turn.

One caveat, is lagtard likely to lead out a draw here? If yes, I could maybe see trying fps.

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01-15-2019 , 12:31 PM

#13

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,772

Definitely bet. $275 looks good.

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01-15-2019 , 05:28 PM

#14

monikrazy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 28,053

200, not seeing a need to pound the flop on this texture in a protected pot.

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01-15-2019 , 05:37 PM

#15

wait

banned

Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 1,115

275 is so big. wtf is anyone targeting? who cares about some nonsense balance argument or turn shove sizing argument.

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01-15-2019 , 05:49 PM

#16

gobbledygeek

Poet Laureate of LLSNL

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 36,143

Quote:

Originally Posted by monikrazy

not seeing a need to pound the flop on this texture in a protected pot.

Cuz this is a pretty wet board where there are a zillion draws the maniac will call large bets with?

GcluelessNLnoobG

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01-16-2019 , 10:41 AM

#17

mdelore

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,315

1/3 pot or so intending to massage the rest in over three streets. You want to put Jx and AQ type hands in a bad spot. Don't forget we have redraws if we run into the narrow part of his range that is a good draw and he gets there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobbledygeek

Cuz this is a pretty wet board where there are a zillion draws the maniac will call large bets with?

Maniacs also spaz against smaller bets and will not spaz against $275 nearly as much.

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01-16-2019 , 12:30 PM

#18

gobbledygeek

Poet Laureate of LLSNL

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 36,143

We're expecting guy to spaz against someone who just 4bet (4bet!!!!) preflop in a protected pot?

GcluelessNLnoobG

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01-16-2019 , 12:35 PM

#19

Lapidator

LLSNL Frequent Flyer

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 13,762

$150 so that we can induce V2 to x/jam cuz he thinks our flop bet is weak.

If we really don't think V2 is going to x/jam, then $275 at least.

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01-16-2019 , 12:45 PM

#20

dropnloads

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 278

4Bets Pre are fairly uncommon.

Your 4Bet might just Freeze the Maniac - especially since after you 4Bet V1 Jammed his remaining chips and all in.

If you check the Flop you are in danger that V2 also checks.
So Bet.
If your read is that Maniac Spaz's on small type bets I would make it around 75 or less (into a 345 dollar pot)

Since V1 jammed all his chips you might be just playing for side pot between you and V2 (even loose agro players (V1) can wake up with a set)
You need to induce action and at least get Maniac to Call or better yet Raise.
Just in case all you are scooping is the side Pot.

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01-16-2019 , 12:53 PM

#21

shorn7

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,495

I would probably downbet this flop a bit to try and get Maniac to come along. Its a dry side pot, so bombing here is a mistake IMO. I think i go like $125 or something unless you think the guy will call with any piece of it. And unlike GG, I am willing to give good odds to a FD in a 4! pot (since, in general, there aren't that many out there in these spots as most people don't play middling suited cards for 4! pre, even maniacs) in order to get him to call with his AJ's etc.

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01-17-2019 , 11:42 AM

#22

mdelore

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,315

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobbledygeek

We're expecting guy to spaz against someone who just 4bet (4bet!!!!) preflop in a protected pot?

GcluelessNLnoobG

We're expecting him to call a 90bb bet in a 4b pot when we hold top set?

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01-17-2019 , 12:24 PM

#23

CRAIerrday

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 424

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdelore

We're expecting him to call a 90bb bet in a 4b pot when we hold top set?

Absolutely. In my experience it's pretty rare for V to spaz out in a 4bet pot against a nit 300+ bb deep without a legit hand, but he will almost always call one bet on the flop if he has any piece of the board - gutshots, open enders, a pair, flush draws, etc.

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01-18-2019 , 02:14 AM

#24

mr. degen

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 601

I second the $150. I'm sizing so QQ or 1010 will peel turn.

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01-18-2019 , 02:52 AM

#25

Badreg2017

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 1,682

I think checking or betting pot or more are the only wrong answers. I think 2/3 pot is good here. If we go too much bigger we risk losing Jx, AQ etc. I don’t think $150 is a bad sizing either. I don’t think smaller bets induce often enough with your image in this spot.

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