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Old 08-25-2018, 09:15 PM   #1
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1/3 Js4s in the BB

Hi all,

Please give me advice for this hand.

1/3 game very passive overall and loose overall as well

I am easily the tightest but most aggressive at the table and I know V notices this.

V1: very friendly guy who I have been chatting with all night. He is MAWG. He has me covered this hand. I only have 305 to start. He can fold top pair.

OTTH: 5 people limp to me in the B.B. and I have Js 4s and check

(15) Flop is Ks 4c 8s

I check here planning to check raise.

It checks thru

Turn Qc I check V1 bets 15 and 3 people call

I want to take advantage of all this dead money out here and my image is great

I check raise to 65 (too small I know)

V1 tank calls everyone else folds

(190) River is a 2h

I bet 125

Thoughts? I know it kinda sucks we hold two spades here but thoughts overall?
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Old 08-25-2018, 09:50 PM   #2
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Re: 1/3 Js4s in the BB

Doesn't really make sense to c/r the turn because if nobody bet the King high flop in late position, then you really shouldn't expect a bet on a Queen turn in a passive game. Basically, you're counting on people to bet second pair or clubs when they can just take a free river.
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Old 08-25-2018, 09:54 PM   #3
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Re: 1/3 Js4s in the BB

By checking flop, check raising turn, and leading river, you are representing two pair or a set.

However, all the straight draws missed and both flush draws missed so I think V will have a lot of incentive to call a river bet on this board, and he called the turn check raise so he should have a good hand.

I think you will fold out flush draws, but I just think we have better spots than this, especially if the game is passive.
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Old 08-26-2018, 04:59 PM   #4
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Re: 1/3 Js4s in the BB

Anyone else?
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Old 08-26-2018, 05:33 PM   #5
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Re: 1/3 Js4s in the BB

You have a trash hand in the BB. When this happens, I am always looking to play a small pot unless I flop a monster.

Here, you flopped a medium flush draw and bottom pair. Big whoop. Nothing to call home about. I don't know why you would consider check-raising the flop. Seems like injecting too much risk/variance unnecessarily into your game. Why go broke in a limped pot?

Just try to realize your equity (a J, 4, or spade) and fold if you miss on the river. No need to get fancy. Save the big bets for when you are truly strong.
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Old 08-27-2018, 12:36 PM   #6
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Re: 1/3 Js4s in the BB

In a small meaningless pot with big stacks behind I'm not so sure I would be going for a flop check/raise; yes, it will take down some a lotta small pots, but will this be made up for the rare times someone has a monster and decides to get it in against us? With no nuttish draws I probably just check/call.

I might actually consider folding the turn at this tight table for fear of my draw being dominated / RIO against this much action. I'm also not convinced we're telling a very convincing story, nor will get any of the draws to fold for this price.

If we get to the river this way I think we have to bet it, especially against someone who can fold TP. Many of his busted draws are ahead of ours, and he'll fold those. The only hand we're going to have a hard time folding is KQ but typically that would bet the flop or might even give more action on the turn. ETA: Whoops, forgot we actually had a showdownable pair; might be more reason just to check the river and showdown against his busted draws (who likely won't bluff).

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Old 08-27-2018, 12:53 PM   #7
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Re: 1/3 Js4s in the BB

Originally Posted by Richard32 View Post
Anyone else?
yeah just call the turn. You're equity is mostly on the flop with two cards to come, plus they will know you're prob gonna fire a couple more bullets if you did raise the flop. It carries more weight, not that it's always the best play in a limped pot.
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Old 08-27-2018, 01:05 PM   #8
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Re: 1/3 Js4s in the BB

Ballsy play. If I'm V1 I'm trying to figure out what hand you're saying you have and why wouldn't you have bet it earlier.
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Old 08-27-2018, 01:34 PM   #9
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Re: 1/3 Js4s in the BB

I think have to fire river as played but I dislike turn c/r for the reasons stated. He has enough pair + draws himself that can find a fold. If you're going to bluff the river just shove imo instead of taking a weird line and giving him attractive pot odds to look you up.
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Old 08-27-2018, 05:37 PM   #10
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Re: 1/3 Js4s in the BB

Check/raise was a fail. There is no value hand that you would ever play this way, and V seems too loose to bet/fold.

There is a slight chance you have the best hand on the river so I would check. Loose V rarely folding a made hand on the river so you're lighting money on fire bluffing against his range.
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