IEffective stacks about 400.

V is a pro ball player. Thinking player bit over aggro and has no raise/fold range pre.

V2 is short stacking gambloor.

Hero is MAWG with thinking image.

UTG limps.
V1 makes it 18 in MP. Range is any PP,QJo+,JTs+
V2 flats to his direct left. Range is about the same

Hero makes it $55 wit JdJs for pure value, expecting V1 to basically always call and V2 yo fold most the time. Willing to hear critiques on this.

V1 flats as expected. V2 shoves, as not expected. I ask for a count and.if it re-opens the betting. It does not. Oops. $79 and obv we both call.

Pot: 230
Flop 2h 4d 5h

V1 checks.
Hero?

I don't see a reason to give a free card here. AK has 10 outs. I probably go $115-125 and shove good turns. Calling a shove as well if he check/raises.

Pre seems good, you are clearly crushing V1 range which you say doesn't narrow at all with your 3 bet. Not raising would be losing value.

Flop seems a standard cbet for value. I bet enough to easy shove turn, say $125. Hope he has TT.

Dry side means check. FE is pointless as you can still lose.

Why not just call down the agro V1 instead of 3b?

Betting the flop increases the chances that we win the money already in the pot.
With $230 in there, we would like to increase these chances.
Betting is required.

--CM

How do you think he expects you to play AK here? Is he folding an ace to a half pot bet?

Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but you wish you had made it $48 to reopen the betting if the short stack shoves. Outside of that, well played so far. Bet about $120 on the turn and call a shove/ plan to shove most turns.

Vs. described range and a F3b stat of 0 Its a mandatory 3 bet especially with v2s likely dead money. You win on the flop so often it doesn't even matter if you don't stack him occasionally.

Flop: bet for value still. All lower PPs will pay and he surrenders a lot of equity with Ax when he folds.

Flop bet seems pretty standard and mandatory in this spot, no reason to give a free card to AK/AQ/KQ or a smaller PP. I would also be calling off if he shoves over your bet

$321 left, 5-high board, I think it is a standard value bet -$115. Lower pps, big aces are likely coming along. Calling a C/R.

Pre - I'd go $65 minimum given V descript.

+1. Checking is crazy

Don't 3-bet pre. You're not thinking enough about post-flop.

Yes, you will have around a 60/40 direct equity advantage pre-flop. You raise to 55, V1 calls 37 more, I guess that nets you like 5 in imaginary pre-flop value? So what? Post-flop is all that matters - after your 3-bet, there will be 110BB+ left in stacks for post-flop play. An over card flops frequently, and JJ can't stand a large post-flop pot. The larger the pot gets post, generally the lesser your equity. You should want to keep stacks deeper by calling pre, not shallower by 3-betting pre. You are playing a suboptimal strategy by building a larger pot.

Also, was your plan to 3-bet/fold? I'm assuming not. If V 4-bets TT+, AQ+, you really can't fold. But it's an equity nightmare. 3-betting commits you to stacking off 130BB pre-flop to a 4-bet with a likely very marginal advantage.

If you do 3-bet pre, 55 is way too small. It's close to a half pot raise over limp + 18 + 18. It's a strange pot sweetener that serves very little purpose against a range where you may have a slight equity advantage pre-flop, but again, that advantage really does not meaningfully transfer to post-flop / the EV of the whole hand.

Value bet now.

I'm not sure how he thinks I'll play AK here. I'm guessing he thinks that I'll check it back unless I have Ah at least, but I'm not certain of that. I expect him to fold a bare aces most of the time to a half pot bet, though he'll often take a look at a turn if he has a big heart to go with his gutshot, and he's obv never folding AhXh.

Actually, my plan was to 3b/f. V is a bit over aggro, but he's never 4 betting TT+, AK+. He's 4-betting KK+, and maybe half of the QQ and AKs combos. 3-bets are rare in my game. 4-bets are all but unseen.

I'm thinking about how the turn plays out if a smaller bet gets called and not liking it, so I'd consider shoving 320 into a 230 pot here. Betting 200 and leaving 120 behind seems silly, so an overbet makes sense.

I wouldn't rule out checking, but that is super read-dependent.

I'd probably just flat this deep and without a crapload of dead money in the pot, especially against an EP raiser (although I realize he's active and looks to have a wide range here) and just play poker postflop. The shorter the stacks / the more dead money in the pot, the more I'd lean towards a 3bet. But I'm super passive like that, and that might be pretty meh here against a wide opener who doesn't have a raise/fold range, plus we have a shortstack gambloor we can get it in with. But it also doesn't reopen the action (getting reraised sucks balls). If we are going to 3bet, I'd make it $70 to prevent setmining odds (or maybe just put in shortstack).

Also calling the all-in as getting setmining odds here (ha, not that we need it against the gambloor).

SPR 1.5. The original raiser didn't reraise us so unlikely he's got a bigger pocket pair. Board is drawy. Not sure we can fold to a check/raise given that 88 might think they have the nuts. I would probably just shove and if he hit a set then practice our 2 outers.

Gpracticingmy2outersinmysparetimeG

V is not in EP. He's in MP.

+1 to overbetting due to anything else seeming silly

-1 to perhaps checking (less likely to induce in a protected pot, giving a free card in a monster pot sucks)

GimoG

Ah, missed that. I guess I'm either/or preflop. One more caller with the gambloor in there and I'm probably leaning more towards the 3bet, so whatever.

Still, the deeper we are, the more I just overall lean towards playing poker postflop in position. But that's me.

GmrpassiveG

Yeah I also want to consider shoving flop.

I think 33, 66-TT, hearts snap. Random over cards like KQ don't call, but I think that's OK and it's better to shove vs those 36 lower pocket pair combos and handful of flush draws than to bet super small to hope to eek out a call against over cards that might even be getting decent odds to improve. I also don't put much stock in trying to eek out some value vs Ax wheel gut shot + over(s) because those really are a very small % of his range anyway... and he might still call a shove with AQ type hands perhaps with one heart (2 overs + gut shot + backdoor flush draw... and again, if he folds a decent-equity hand like that, that's not such a bad outcome at all). He might also call with two overs + diamonds, other overs + one heart, etc. And yet again, him folding those is a fine outcome.

I think we can actually have decent equity vs the short stacker. He could have lots of unpaired hands and worse pocket pairs that are shoving against our "obvious AK."

Huh! I've always had a hard time with sizing in protected sidepots. Just basing them off the pot-size seems like it's missing something, though I'm not actually sure what.

In any case, shoving seems like it loses us a lot of value, as we lose most of his Ax and PPs 88-TT.

V2 has a medium PP almost always here, imo. He has some 55-77 in his range, but mostly in the 88-TT range, imo.

So hero makes it $90 to build a sidepot and make for an easy turn shove if called. My original though was $100, but I thought he might see that as strong enough that I'd lose some value. Really not sure I like this sizing, though.

V mini tanks and shoves. Hero?

You can say it is an easy turn shove if called, but you have to consider the situations where he check-raises the flop or calls the flop and donks the turn. I'm never betting without having guessed first what my opponent's raising range is.

How much do you bet if you both have 600 behind?

I'm not loving it, but I'm calling. I just don't think we can setup SPR 1.5 spots with an overpair and not get it in, and I'm guessing we're facing TT-/overs+draw enough.

As for sizing, I'm just not loving that we're offering decent 3.5:1 odds in a pot we're probably feeling committed in where the turn brings a decent amount of gross cards (heart, 3, Q+, heck we probably even have second thoughts if a T-8 falls) with us only having a 1/2 PSB left. If he raises/calls a smaller pair than us and then can then fold it on the flop (to a shove that really isn't that much of an overbet considering pot looks huge, plus maybe we're the ones with a heart draw + gutshot + overs), good for him I guess?

ETA: Regarding flop sizing, I think some of it comes down to how well we can trust ourselves to make the proper move on the turn. Frankly, I make *so* many mistakes here it ain't funny. I'm working on it, but until then, I'm probably better off making the "easier" play by shoving the flop; if you play better, it isn't as much to be worried about.

GcluelessNLnoobG

His Ax often has 7-10 outs (AQ has 3 A's 3 Q's and 4 3's).

AQ with a heart has another ~1.5 outs.

Villain is calling with a bunch of Ax; but if he does fold, it's probably a pretty great thing since he abandons so much equity in a very large main pot. That equity is likely to go almost entirely to hero's pot equity.

Losing his Ax is fine.

I also really doubt he folds 33, 66-TT. 33 has an OESD and set draw. 66 is an over pair + straight draw + set draw. And 77-TT? You get a lot of calls.

As played, it's a snap call, but far from a great spot.

Regardless of what unusual permutations arised in this specific hand, the misplay in this hand is pre-flop. You built a pot when you should want to play a smaller pot. And, again, while quite an unlikely permutation, this is not generally an unexpected result - hero plays an enormous pot with one pair. I'm not saying your play wasn't +EV. Of course it's +EV. JJ is very strong and a flat or 3-bet will be + EV. But I think it's materially worse than flatting pre.

Preflop obviously you have to be a bit more aware of stacks. I would make it $45 here so you can reshove if the short stack jams.

As played the flop is really awkward with these stacks so my first thought is to overbet shove. How often would villain call $80-125 with AK/AQ/AJ or 66-TT? Seems like we need more info on the villain and how spewy he is.

Lots of crappy turn cards as well where villain could conceivably pick up equity and donk shove forcing a tough call or a fold.

I highly doubt we lose TT-88 because villain will put you on the ol' AK. Losing Ax is fine because they dump their equity. An overcard hits nearly 50% of the time by the river. What's the plan if we check and the turn is a K? We lose our ability to get value from worse pp and now are in a tough spot if villain bets. I think we can afford to check back with AA/KK, not JJ, imo.

Never folding as played for the reasons above. Could be a mid pp getting you off AK, an (unlikely) bluff with Ax, or a number of semi-bluffs. The SPR is way too low to dump JJ to a crai.